Water change n quality

[FishyD]

Yeah I do get you. I'm on my way for a 2 week holiday so my fish are on their own for a bit. I've done plenty of water changes and cleaning, and set the auto feeder up to feed lightly every other day. I believe my stocking level and water parameters when I left will be fine to get them through the two weeks healthily.
In that sense I completely understand what you mean by not letting it burn you out.
Normally I change about 40% of the water once or twice a week but that's probably more than is strictly necessary.

Whatever works for your tanks as long as your parameters stay where they need to. More frequent small WCs work better at my house due to RO capacity limitations and a lot of stairs to climb if I need to resort to buckets. My wife doesn't want me to automate the entire house like a fish room. A lot of people do large WCs to replenish minerals because it's necessary for them. I have 3X or more goodness than what is actually required in my well, so it just causes a work for no benefit to my fish to reduce it back down with RO.

 

[FishyD]

If you have a number of aquariums, you can set them up with an automatic water changer. A number of shops have them and they simply run by themselves (after they are set up). You still get regular water changes and you still need to go in and do gravel cleaning and filter cleaning, but it's less work if you have a number of tanks.

I missed this post. Yeah I can't set up an auto water changing system in my entire house or I will have a fish store my wife won't love. My water changing system would have to properly mix RO with well water in the proper proportion, and alter it for different species tanks as well. Oh I do wish I could just turn on the tap and all is well, but that's not how it is in much of the US. Our water is very diverse across this country.

 

[FishyD]

If you're doing a fish in cycle, then water quality is not going to be ok unless you have a lot of fast growing floating plants. Barring that, you should be prepared to do a substantial (50%).water change every day or two until the cycle completes.
After the cycle completes, I'd say a 50% water change weekly. We don't do water changes just to fix bad parameters. A wise man once told me we do frequent water changes to keep the parameters stable so that they never get bad.
Besides, the fish love it. Fish love fresh clean water. I can see my fish are more active and out in the open after I do a water change.

He is heavily stocked and set himself up for exactly what you describe. He needs frequently large WCs, and that isn;t conducive to your wallet dumping bacteria additions to move the cycle along. And this is why we do fishless cycling. I'm sure fishless sounds like unnecessary work and it delays your fish gratification, until you find out what the other option actually is. Suddenly a bottle of ammonia and a little patience doesn't seem like such an inconvenience.

 

[sharkweek178]

He is heavily stocked and set himself up for exactly what you describe. He needs frequently large WCs, and that isn;t conducive to your wallet dumping bacteria additions to move the cycle along. And this is why we do fishless cycling. I'm sure fishless sounds like unnecessary work and it delays your fish gratification, until you find out what the other option actually is. Suddenly a bottle of ammonia and a little patience doesn't seem like such an inconvenience.

It's a common mistake for people who are new. Best we can do is learn from our mistakes.
The ironic thing is that a fishless cycle is faster. You can add levels of ammonia that would be lethal to fish to move it along faster.

 

[FishyD]

It's a common mistake for people who are new. Best we can do is learn from our mistakes.
The ironic thing is that a fishless cycle is faster. You can add levels of ammonia that would be lethal to fish to move it along faster.

Yes it is faster to the end goal, but you don't get to play with fish tomorrow. That will always be a problem. What I love most about the fishless cycle is once you do it, the general rules become simple, and a few extra sponge filters or media tossed in the tank make adding another tank simple. Mostly cycled in a few days, or at least close enough to add a fish or two if there was truly a need to.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

In my opinion, a lot of the advice in the thread is absolutely incorrect. The best advice you got was to read the first rescue article. The problem, however, is that the article you really need to read is the 2nd rescue article.

I was curious about the vid posted, I watched a couple of minutes and then stopped. What I was hearing upset me. You may notice I wrote the three cycling articles for the site. The one thing you will not see is an article on how to cycle with fish. I prefer that one always opt for a fishless cycle and am unwilling to help anyone start a cycle using fish. Helping to save the fish and often the new fish keeper after they have started a fish-in cycle is not the same thing. That is why the first article suggests removing the fish or adding the right bacteria to the tank.

So, I will make you an offer which you can choose to accept or not. After you read this article https://www.fishforums.net/threads/rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-il.433778/ ff you want my help getting you through things, shoot me a PM.

However, you should know that I have one rule if you want me to work with you. You have to stop listening to all the advice except mine. The reason for this is simple and best explained by that old saying, "Too many cooks spoil the broth." So if you prefer to listen to another voice, that is fine, but then you need to stick to that one voice. Trying to mix varying advice from different people will most often make things worse not better, imo.

Things that are simply not universally true:
1. Anytime you test any level of ammonia or nitrite you must do big water changes. The reasons for this is made clear in the linked article.
2. Starter bacteria needs to be added to a tank more several times. If it is the right bacteria and the proper amount, once is all you need.

Also, if one is not prepared to provide any animal with the proper care, you should not keep that animal. I am in the process of backing out of the hobby because, at 76, I can longer do all the needed work to keep my 20 or more tanks healthy. That means weekly water changes and maintenance. Every now and then one can miss a week. But a small glass box of water filled with living creatures requires regular water changes and bigger is better. As noted, if one stocks lightly, this change schedule can be a bit less frequent.

 

[angiemike6]

I have been keeping tropical fish for 30 years, and it is only since using Seachem products that I have been the most relaxed with this hobby and enjoyed it so much. I understand that this article is about setting up a new tank, but I wanted to talk a little bit more about Ceez's article, and I know that my opinion will also be unpopular. I have a 40 gallon tank, which is overstocked with 30 fish including 4 Clown Loaches, 3 Golden Gouramis, 3 plecs and 6 Congo Tetras. I change 35% of the water every week using tap water. I clean all the sponges in my filter every week, and the pump internals once a month to keep a good flow. My water parameters are Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Ph 7.8, dKH 140 ppm, dGH 320 ppm and nitrates 40-80. The nitrate level is high, but it is 40 ppm out of the tap in my area. I dose the tank every water change with Seachem Prime, Seachem Stability and Seachem Pristine. Since using Seachem products I have never lost fish except due to old age, and have not had any disease in the tank for many years. All of my fish appear to be happy and not stressed. I say this because the colour of fish tend to fade when they are stressed, unless you are a Bolivian Ram when the body goes black. All of my fish are very brightly coloured, and all get on with each other. Most of them are more than 10 years old. Seachem has been my saviour, and although I did not cycle my tank with Seachem, I quite believe Kaveman Aquatics video showed by Ceez would work.

 

[sharkweek178]

I won't be maintaining a bunch of tanks that require a 50-75% WC every seven days to maintain healthy fish. That's a good way to eventually burn yourself out on the hobby if you have a life.

I'm told a Python syphon makes it a lot easier. I still haul buckets myself.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

My last clown loach to die was 23 years old. I got it 20+s years ago at about 4-5 inches. It ws close to 12 inches TL. I keep my clowns in 1 50 gal tank. They were on a 75 until they outgrew it. You are keeping too few clowns and cannot see their normal behavior in the number and size tank you have. I now have only 10 which should be more. Unfortunately I am backing out of the hobby and they will be offered for sale shortly.

One can rave about Stability all they want, but it contains no nitrifying bacteria and is, imo, a waste of money, especially to keep adding it.

Seachem makes a mixed bag or products, Some good, some not so good and some useless, imo. I currently have (orused in the past)the following from SeaChem:
- Equilibrium- used only in tanks heavily planted which also have snails and shrimp.
- MetroPlex (Active ingredients: metronidazole (70%) Inactive ingredients: excipients (30%).
- Flourish when I first started with live plants I used it but, I gave it up pretty fast and have used Tropic ferts ever since.
- Individual ferts- used for a while until Tropica divided its ferts in two- one comprehensive and the other mostly Trace.

It is important to realize that most of the major product makers for Aquariums must compete on a product by product level. That also means, unfortunately, that their competing product may not be worth buying but they feel complleed to sell it anyway.

I have only kept 20-28 tanks from 5.5 to 150 gals over the last 23+ years. I prefer to get my information on a lot of things relevant to the hobby not from social media where I am absent or from forums like this one (for the most part). I instead prefer to read the scientific research papers as most have no axe to grind or products to sell. They want to discover the science.

And that vid Ceez posted is not worth listening to as it gets too much info wrong. When one uses a dechlor which contains an ammonia detoxifier, or an outright detoxifier, it converts the ammonia (NH3) and which is quite toxic into ammonium (NH4) which is less toxic but at elevated levels for any time can still harm fish. The problem is that the bacteria cannot process NH3 as efficiently as NH3. Also, dechlor is a reducing agent which means is takes oxygen from the water in order to work.

If one relies on social media or product advertising for their information, the odds are they are getting bad info. Anybody can say anything they want without review or fact checking. Getting a paper published in a peer reviewed journal is a stringent review process preformed by degreed independent experts in the relevant field.

I can link you to three such published papers and a couple of granted patent applications for Dr. Tim's One and Only/Tetra Safe Start but cannot find a single published peer reviewed study for Seachem Stability. There is a reason for that. Stability does not contain any live bacteria, it is a bottle of spores. The problem is that the nitrifying bacteria do not form spores. Moreover, it was discovered some time ago that there are ammonia oxidizing Archaea at work in oceans, brackish, fresh water and many aquariums as well as soil

After reading or watching most of the misinformation on aquarium sites and some social media, I took up a crusade years ago on some sites to correct the incorrect information re. the bacteria and cycling.

The 40 gal. tank described above is not what I would consider a healthy tank, especially for only 3 clowns:
From https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus/

C. macracanthus is gregarious, forms complex social hierarchies and should be maintained in groups of at least 5 or 6 specimens, preferably 10 or more.

When kept singly it can become withdrawn or aggressive towards similarly-shaped fishes, and if only a pair or trio are purchased the dominant individual may stress the other(s) to the extent that they stop feeding.

That said it seemingly requires regular contact with conspecifics, a fact exemplied by a number of behavioural rituals which have been recorded consistently in aquaria (see ‘Notes’).

This picture Credit: Bob Darnell, is why I had to start keeping clowns

from https://www.loaches.com/species-index/photos/c/chromobotia_macracanthus_group04.jpg/view

 

[FishyD]

I'm told a Python syphon makes it a lot easier. I still haul buckets myself.

Yes a Python is very good tool. It won't siphon uphill though. My RO faucet pressure is way too low to do that, so buckets it is lol. There is a good reason I have no large tanks upstairs. This also makes smaller but more frequent WCs attractive. If the cost of a python is an issue, a very cheap (light) outdoor garden hose is handy for WCs. You can get an adapter for most faucets, and it will siphon well enough.

 

[Tyler777]

In my opinion, a lot of the advice in the thread is absolutely incorrect. The best advice you got was to read the first rescue article. The problem, however, is that the article you really need to read is the 2nd rescue article.

I was curious about the vid posted, I watched a couple of minutes and then stopped. What I was hearing upset me. You may notice I wrote the three cycling articles for the site. The one thing you will not see is an article on how to cycle with fish. I prefer that one always opt for a fishless cycle and am unwilling to help anyone start a cycle using fish. Helping to save the fish and often the new fish keeper after they have started a fish-in cycle is not the same thing. That is why the first article suggests removing the fish or adding the right bacteria to the tank.

So, I will make you an offer which you can choose to accept or not. After you read this article https://www.fishforums.net/threads/rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-il.433778/ ff you want my help getting you through things, shoot me a PM.

However, you should know that I have one rule if you want me to work with you. You have to stop listening to all the advice except mine. The reason for this is simple and best explained by that old saying, "Too many cooks spoil the broth." So if you prefer to listen to another voice, that is fine, but then you need to stick to that one voice. Trying to mix varying advice from different people will most often make things worse not better, imo.

Things that are simply not universally true:
1. Anytime you test any level of ammonia or nitrite you must do big water changes. The reasons for this is made clear in the linked article.
2. Starter bacteria needs to be added to a tank more several times. If it is the right bacteria and the proper amount, once is all you need.

Also, if one is not prepared to provide any animal with the proper care, you should not keep that animal. I am in the process of backing out of the hobby because, at 76, I can longer do all the needed work to keep my 20 or more tanks healthy. That means weekly water changes and maintenance. Every now and then one can miss a week. But a small glass box of water filled with living creatures requires regular water changes and bigger is better. As noted, if one stocks lightly, this change schedule can be a bit less frequent.

I do appreciate your advice. I noticed lots of common sense in your advice