Watching Your Fish Die Is Horrific! Whats Wrong With Him?

[metalcherry]

I have had an earlier experience of watching fish die when my large fish collection (oscars/12" plecos/Black Sharks etc) all died sadly from a Nitrite spike accidently produced by me and my lack of knowledge that you should really stagger clean your filter and not replace every filter pad with a new......lesson learnt!

But today I have had the horror of watching one of my much loved Clown Loaches go from a healthy to a sudden collapse.

i am use to my loaches being active zipping up and down and I keep a close eye on them all making sure they are all healthy which from what i can see they are, but one of my clown loaches is shy and at times is hard to find - they often hide in the ornaments and rarely comes out to play so keeping an eye on him is quite tricky. But every now and then he is zippy and plays up and down the tank and he is healthy......until today (well 5 mins ago)
Today he was zippy but the past 2 days i have spotted an unusal rash across his gills. I am trying to see if i can get a pic of it but to me I would discribe them as a raw rash and quite boil like. both gills are affected, they are red raw and there is a transparency over them just like a boil type bubble.

Anyways, i was sitting watching the fish when i saw the loach swimming up and down like the others - normally i accept this as him playing about but there was an unusual feeling i got about him so i continued to watch for 2-3 minutes as he swum around with the rest - there was no real difference but i got an unusual feeling that something was not right then all of a sudden i saw him - what i would discribe as faint - he stopped swimming and dropped a bit but he picked up and swam up and down again and this happened probebly about 5 times over the next 5 minutes. I went over to the tank and he was swimming like normal until he fainted again only this time he went over to one side and again regained composure and continued to play.

I watched for a couple more minutes of him fainting and perking up until he finally fainted and then he made a horrible arch shape with his body - one of which i remember too well when my Oscar died and he curled into a rather sharp arch which really haunts me to this day thinking about it and the clown is lying in an arch position now - he slightly moves when hes trying to breath - hes gasping but not moving his fins at all.

I have ran tests on the water - ph/high ph/nitrate/nitrite/ammonia are all normal as always there has been no changes at all in the water conditions.

Can anyone tell me if there is a way of saving him? I thought he was dead at first but i saw him twitch but the boils/rash across his gills looks very angry and agressive but as i said before, i never saw it before until the past couple of days and no other fish have this or has been asking as strangley.
I put in a bit of aquarium salts but i have no clue what else to do - i dont know if it would be worth moving him to an isolation tank or just give up on him
He is my oldest (oldest being my first) clown and the other two are fine - he is also a different type of clown as the other two are very fat and round and this one is quite slender and thin and has never gained any weight but as far as i can see he eats.

 

[metalcherry]

Got some piccys - not the best its off a camera phone but you can see how red his cheeks are which were never that read.
He has managed to swim to the other side of the tank but he keeps collapsing, breaths rapidly and then goes back to normal - however he is not moving from that spot now.

I have taken a little vid of the fish when he was recovering from a faint

 

[metalcherry]

This is a better video of how he is acting - he is flipping all over the place and then drops dead from what i can see and then he bucks up again - swims normally and then flips out again

Excuse the NYPD blues video mode lol - the clown loach is behind the bridge at the beginning of the video - its quite tricky to find him with the melon barb but you will soon see him.


As i said above water conditions are normal and there has been no changes in condition however, just looked at the tank and all the fish seem ok except the Tiger Barb which is breathing so fast its quite scary and was flipping abotu the tank and the two clown loaches are breathing quite quickly but the other fish are all fine.

 

[Spishkey]

aw that poor fish, he looks in a bit of a state. is there no way you can move him to a seperate tank for now?
there is something very wrong with him, hope wilder or someone in the know comes and helps yu soon.


Good luck

 

[WILDER]

Red inflamed gills can be gill flukes signs are.
Red inflamed gills, or opaque gills with excess slime.
Flicking and rubbing against objects in the tank.
Laboured breathing or gasping at the surface of the tank.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Spitting food out.
Sores on the body of the fish.
Weighloss.
Erratic swimming.

Do the gills resemble a hamburger.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.koicrisis.com/symptoms/gill.html

 

[metalcherry]

hmmm, he is still alive and kicking but still doing the same. but there has been a fatality with another fish but will tell you in a tick
His gill (or the outside of gills) condition i would describe as flat - not swollen, very very raw looking and very red, its not pale. looks like someone has scratched the outside of his gills red raw.
However, he has always been thin but he had another bad turn and turned on his side and he is waffer thin. His stomach has a slight tiny big of fat on it but the top of his body is so thin and boney like, i had to double take when i saw how thin he was.
He is still flipping out - he faints, falls on his side, breaths, however his breathing has became very shallow when he is on his side as if he is about to give up. Something will come over to him and nudge him and then he will swim normally again. Its quite a painful thing to watch to know that he is so ill.

However, back to the fatality.......I have absolutely no idea whats happened - my Golden Barb was perfect yesterday - no signs of disease or unusual behaviour and no signs of worry.
Came back today and i sat on the couch and noticed he was sitting on the ground under some moss strands i have on the ground.
I noticed he wasnt moving so went over to see if i could check on the clown that was sick, just happened to look at the barb and his eyes are gone!!! there are no signs of popeye last night, all the other fish seem fine. His scales had white rub patches across them as if he was scraping himself, however he has trapped himself inbetween spaces in my bridge before and had scratched himself trying to get out so use to seeing slight scrapes across him.

I retested the water just to be on safeside.
Water temp - 28
PH - 7.6
High PH - 7.4
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm

Everything is perfect - to be on safeside i changed the water sooner than usual to clear anything but the other fish are rarely at the top gasping for air. the tigerbarb which i said above was gasping rapidly is still doig it but no signs of distress otherwise.
The other fish are all swimming fine
I did spot on one of my large severum which I have always kept an eye on as they behave very different from my other severum as they have always (during the 1+ year i have had them) swam ok but occasionally would float on its side for a few seconds and then swim normally but it has always had a slight tilt when it swims and it seems to like floating at the bottom with its head pointing straight up. I believed it was a submission action as it goes on its side when a fish nudges it but it seems healthy enough other than that. But when i found my golden barb dead today - i looked at the other fish and the weird-severum on each side of its gills has one singular spot - raised, quite small, hardly noticeable unless you look on top of its gills, like its sticking out.
I immediately thought it might have been those paracites which live "inside" gills but this is on the outside not inside but they seem to be acting normal like usual.

I am going to move the clown if its still alive once the cycle is complete - i use the spare tank as a snail den to keep my snails in but i have not had the heater on for a few weeks but is filtered ok.

 

[WILDER]

If the clown loach is skinny he has internal parasites once fish waste away the damage has been done internally.
Are they any signs of flicking and rubbing.
If not I would add a bacterial med to the tank.
The fish will need treating with a wormer med as well.
[URL="http/www.bollmoraakvarieklubb.org/artikl...raktbotia/clown"]http/www.bollmoraakvarieklubb.org/artikl...raktbotia/clown[/URL] loach.htm

Taken from the link.

Loss of weight or "skinny disease" is also quite common in Clown loaches. Typical symptoms are loss of weight and behaviour known as "knifeback" even though the fish is acting and eating normally. This sickness is more difficult to treat, it comes from a parasite organism (spironucleus) in the intestines of the same type that is thought to cause the so called "discus disease". I have successfully removed this disease from newly imported fish by using Spirohexol from JBL in the form of tablets. I have taken one tablet and crushed it and dissolve it in as little water as possible. I have then used discus granules which have been soaked in the solution. It becomes like a thick porridge after a short time when the food has drawn in the liquid. I then feed this to the sick fishes, after a week it looks like the sickness is gone. For the best possible effect do not feed with any other food. Flagyl (Metronidazole) also helps fight against this sickness but at least here in Sweden it is on prescription and can be a little difficult to come by.



Apart from this Clown loaches are not more susceptible than other fish, the above sickness usually occurs in fish that have been stressed during transport or subjected to other stress factors like cold water or poor aquarium hygiene. Do not buy fish that look emaciated! Well looked after fish are seldom sick. To quote my friend Elisabeth Hallberg; "the best way to avoid sickness is to keep the fish healthy".

 

[Loony Fish]

pH is a little high for clown loach. how big is he? i recommend you go to your local pet store for some information. if it is petco or petsmart don't bother, they are idiots( no offends meant)


sorry about your fish!

 

[WILDER]

Fish get used to the ph I wouldn't mess with it.
I woudln't use ph adjusters there more trouble than there worth.
You can add bogwood to a tank or peat in the filter.

It might be kinder to put the clown loach out of his misery he sound to far gone to save.
The other fish that has lost both eyes they can survive with one missing but not two.
The fish with the white scratch marks any excess slime on any of the fish.

 

[electric yellow]

Oh they sound like they are in pain I watched the fainting video and my heart went out to you. Its hard watching and not knowing whats wrong.

I have had my fair share of internal parasites in my takn and sick fish but my two loaches and barbs have been the ones to survive. They are fighters

 

[metalcherry]

Sadly the clown is no more He seemed to be on the mend last night - not fainting as much and swimming fine but i woke up today and found him dead on the ground, he has got thinner and his face has gone white. Sadly its the end of him the other two look very well fed and no signs of problems, they are a different type of clown loach compared to the deceased, they are more fuller and rounder while the other one was quite long and thin (but not as thin as recently).
I have looked at all the fish and there are no others with rubbing or extra slime, all healthy from what i can see.

I have added bacterial lotion to help and i have done a waterchange and added the usual stress lotions. Might take a check at the filter - Its a large filter and never had any probs with it but while changing the water, i noticed the output was not as strong as usual so will do a bit of staggering.

The gold barb which died and lost his eyes - Im still in shock, there are no signs of problems with him, he was healthy and eating well - he was probebly one of the greediest fish i had besides the severum. If it was a sign of popeye - could it have happened overnight - i have had a couple of experiences of popeye with my beta but usually it happens over a couple of days - weeks, not overnight.
The white marks across his body i have classed as rubbing, the scales were gone as if he has rubbed continually against the gravel. The severum which had the white marks on his gills which i was worrying about - they appear to have gone, so keeping a close eye on him but heading out today to see about wormer lotions as well.

If you watch the second vid - around 2 mins into it you see the gold barb in question and as you can see he is well fed and healthy - no probs with his eyes or scales so it would have had to have happened within 5 hours.

I test the water nearly weekly and it is always the same results (occasinally ammonia will pop up a mark but its easily sorted)

I have a small bow 27l tank which i keep snails in and im tempted to maybe move a few of the smaller fish into there just to see if there are any problems within the tank

Thank you all so much for your help, I had a feeling the clown could not be saved, i think i was hoping there was some kind of miricle solution

 

[WILDER]

Bless him R.I.P.
I would keep a close eye on flicking and rubbing with the clown having red gills and one rub the scaless off you could have flukes.

 

[metalcherry]

Thanks so much for all your help wilder, I have cleaned out the tank some more and added all the lotions, hopefully it should clear and thy all stay healthy lol.
xx

 

[WILDER]

Good luck.