very sick betta!

[skye4jc]

i have a male betta who has been a real trooper ( saved him from curly fins about 6 months ago). now he has what looks like a patc of lost scales on his head with the scales sorrounding this "hole" sicking out like dropsy. he also looks lethargic, gummy and swollen (although he doest show signs of dropsy on the rest of his body). his throat is going white, and he just looks all over gross (but not "body fungus" gross... not yet, anyway!)

i have removed him from my heated 10 gal. and put him in a 1 gal. bowl alone with bettafix and no food since yesterday.

can anyone tell me why this happened, what it could be and how i should treat him?

 

[WILDER]

I think you might need antibiotics treatment and some melafix, the throat going white do you mean it looks like mouth fungus.

 

[skye4jc]

no... not mouth fungus... just a loss of colour between the bottom of the gills. oh, and there is funky stuff floating in the water (was just changed about 16hours ago! yech!)

 

[WILDER]

Do you mean fluffy stuff, I would get on with treating the fish do you have any anti internal bacteria med on hand.

 

[skye4jc]

no, but i work at a lps... i can get some ( i know i should know this then, but thats why im here on this forum site... to learn more!! ha! who woulda guessed?!)

what would you recommend? (brands?) i already have Bettafix Remedy, which, in essence is melafix diluted. im using that right now...anything else?
also, could my water have contributed to this?

today's readings...

PH - 6.3
KH - 300
GH - 70
NO2- 0
NO3 - 45
NH3/NH4+ - 0
Salinity - 0.11%

 

[WILDER]

You could go for a antibiotic you feed to the fish, or antibiotic you add to the water like tetracycline, a weaker version maracyn, if you have a filter the tetracycline will wipe out your bacteria colony.

 

[SRC]

Bacterial Infections

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Description:
There are a great number of bacterial strains that may affect a fish. Bacteria are present in water at all times. The fish will become susceptible to them when it is weakened by stress or other factors (such as poor water conditions, bullying tankmates, improper temperature or environment, or possibly even injuries), allowing them to take control. Bacterial infections will typically cause the same types of symptoms: lethargic behavior, loss of appetite; sometimes the fish will have red blood-streaked skin and/or fins; can have ulcers/lesions on body, etc.

Treatment:
Because there are a wide variety of bacteria, there are also a wide variety of medications that must be chosen from. Different bacteria are susceptible to different types of antibiotics: some meds work better against gram-positive bacteria while others are more effective against gram-negative bacteria. If you do not know which kind your fish has, you may have luck with a broad-spectrum antibiotic medication that treats both gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, for example. Most bacteria that infect fish are gram-negative.


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Some common Gram negative bacteria include Aeromonas hydrophila, Aeromonas salmonicida, Flavobacterium columnare (which causes columnaris), Vibrio, and Pseudomonas species. Other Gram negative bacteria include coliforms (fecal bacteria) such as E. coli and the cycle bacteria, Nitrosomonas sp. and Nitrobacter sp., septicemia (red streaks in the fish).

Some common Gram positive bacteria include Staphylococcus and Streptococcus.
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Prevention:
Antibiotics do not actually cure the problem. Instead they help the fish's immune system to regain control to be able to fight off the infection. Therefore it is very important to examine the fish's environmental factors, water quality, nutrition received, and any other possible stress factors and eliminate these. For prevention, just one important step includes keeping the water very clean by performing frequent water changes. As with any disease the fish is more susceptible to contract an infection following stress. Stress can be caused by environmental factors (bullying fish, improper temperature, drastic changes, etc) as well as poor water conditions.

Internal Bacterial Problems:
Most antibacterial medications treat only external problems. Therefore it is necessary to take stronger measures to get the medication INSIDE the fish: most people do this via medicated food. Another course of action would be to inject the fish with medication but your typical hobbyist is not equiped to do this.

Luckily, some antibiotics are designed to be absorbed internally:
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Anti-Bacterial
Mardel Labs' Maracyn-Two (for internal gram negative infections only)

Columnaris: Mouth Fungus; Fin Rot disease; Cotton Mouth disease (False Fungus)
Flavobacterium colmnare, Flexibacter columnaris; Bacillus columnaris, Chondrococcus columnaris; Cytophaga columnaris

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Description:
Despite one of the disease's names, Fungus, this is actually a gram-negative rod bacterial disease. Columnaris bacteria will typically attach themselves to a fish's head, mouth, lips, or inside the mouth. Columnaris has different possible appearances:


The mouth "fungus" is commonly called cotton-mouth because the fish's mouth seems to be covered with a thread-like cottonish substance. Since the initial leisions look somewhat like cotton, columnaris is often confused with true fungus. Note that when examined very closely, fungus has distinct hair-like filaments which shoot out, whereas columnaris is more like fuzz or lint.


Columnaris usually affects the mouth area but can also appear as yellowish-brown, white, or grayish-white spots on some part of the head, fins, gills, or body which are usually surrounded by a reddish area. This type commonly takes what is known as a saddleback pattern on the fish's body.
Labyrinth fish and Apistogrammas are highly susceptible to this disease. Prevention includes keeping the water very clean by performing frequent water changes. As with any disease the fish is more susceptible to contract columnaris following stress. Also keep in mind that bacteria bloom in higher temperatures.

Treatments include:
Malachite green (except for fry), salt, Melafix, or antibiotics as a last recourse (such as Spectrogram, Furanace, or Sulfa-based products).

Medications

Notes to mention:
Biological filtration systems are not affected by Mardel products.

Please be sure to use all antibiotics properly: do not stop treatment any sooner than 5 days to prevent bacterial mutations, preferrably 7 or more.

Some fish are intolorant of certain medications; research before using. Especially (these are just examples, there are more): scaleless fish like catfish, invertebrates/snails, fry, and don't forget about the plants. Some instances will be noted below, but not all.

Since many antibiotics kill gram-negative bacteria and the biological nitrifying bacteria of an aquarium are also gram-negative, it is better to quarantine the affected fish instead of treating an entire tank.

Simply choosing an antibiotic, unfortunately, isn't enough. Some bacteria are naturally resistant to specific medications, and some are mutated and will only respond to increased doseages. Often it's not possible to even determine what type of bacteria you're dealing with. Or maybe it's both! If the fish doesn't improve within a few days, switch medications. Or try a broad-spectrum one that kills both gram-negative and positive bacteria, such as neomycin, chloramphenicol, nitrofurazone based products, skin absorbed kanamycin sulfate based antibiotics such as Kanacyn/K-Mycin, or tetracycline.

Products such as Spectrogram by Aquatronics is an ultra-wide spectrum antibiotic blend of nitrofurazone and kanamycin that's useful for such purposes.
Gram-positive bacteria are often unaffected by tetracycline and streptomycin.
Gram-negative bacteria may be unaffected by ampicillin, penicillin, erythromycin and sulfa.

Some bacteria may be unaffected by the usual dose, but are susceptible to a higher dose.

Sulfa based drugs are quite effective against Gram negative bacteria.

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Bettamax
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
Antibiotic capsules for treating listlessness, poor appetite, damage fins, poor color, vitamin deficiency, bacterial and fungal infections. For freshwater use only. Specific for Bettas, Guppies, and all fancy-finned fish.
Contains: 250 mg nitrofurazone, methylene blue, pvp, vitamins, NaCl sulfas, methazine, diazine, and merazine.


Erythromycin
Bacterial medication that treats gram positive & some gram negative bacteria, including those that cause fin and tail rot, Gill Disease and Molly Disease.


Spectrogram
Ultra-wide spectrum antibiotic for treating: red body patches, hemorrhage, white body slime, protruding scales, bacterial infections, Furunculosis, Columnaris and fungal infections. For use in fresh and marine aquariums. Do not use with invertebrates. Great for quarantine tanks and baths.
Active Ingredients: nitrofurazone, kanamycin.


Tetracycline
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
A broad-spectrum antibiotic used in the treatment of gram-positive and some gram-negative bacterial infections. For infections of fin and tail rot, frayed fins, popeye, inflamed gills, mouth and body open sores/ulcers, livebearer disease, dropsy, Columnaris, and secondary infections such as fungal. Specific for livebearers and goldfish. Aerate the aquarium well when using. Useful for the control of some common bacterial diseases, including Aeromonias and Pseudomonas Genera and the Mysobacterial group.


Maracyn
Manufacturer: Mardel
A broad-spectrum antibiotic for gram-positive bacterial infections. For infections of columnaris (body fungus), fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, and secondary infections.
Active ingredient: Erythromycin.


Maracyn–Two
Manufacturer: Mardel
A broad-spectrum antibiotic for internal or external gram negative bacterial infections which can even be absorbed through the skin. Effective treatment of fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, dropsy (swollen body, protruding scales), septicemia (bleeding or red streaks on the body), secondary and internal infections. Effective even when fish won't eat.
Active ingredient: Mincycline hydrochlor.


Coppersafe
Manufacturer: Mardel
Chelated copper treatment recommended for the treatment of ick, flukes, anchor worms, velvet, protozoan diseases and other external parasites.


Aquarisol
Manufacturer: Aquarium Products
Mild, effective treatment for curing Ich and other parasite infestations. Contains soluble copper salts.


Methylene Blue
Treats superficial fungal infections of fish. Helps prevent fungal infections on fish eggs; effective against superficial fungal infections. Treats ich. May adversly affect the biological system; quarantine and treat sick fish when possible. Use as an alternative to Malachite Green for the control of fungus when it is known that the fish to be treated are sensitive.


Malachite Green
For treatment of external parasites as well as external fungal infections of fishes and eggs which include Achlya and Saprolegnia.


Clout
Manufacturer: Aquarium Products
A very strong and effective medication for parasitic and protozoan infestations. Treats: Ich, Hydra, leeches, Planaria, Epistylis, Trichodina, Hexamita,Tetrahy-mena, body fungus, digenetic flukes, parasitic copepods, monogenetic flukes and anchor worms.


Maracide
Controls Ich and other common parasites


TriSulfa
For the prevention and control of common bacterial diseases


Maroxy
Anti-fungal for true fungus; also effective against bacteria


Triple Sulfa
Manufacturer: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
A broad spectrum antibacterial medication that treats fungal infections, furunculosis (aeromonas), fin and tail rot, columnaris, body slime/white body and fin blotches, cloudy eyes, molly disease, and bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia.
Active Ingredients: sulfamethazine, sulfacetamide, and sulfathiazole.


Kanacyn
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
A gram positive and gram negative bacteria treatment for red streaks or hemorrhaging, dropsy, fin and tail rot, inflamed gills, protruding or loss of scales, fungal infections, vibrio, tuberculosis, wasting away and body ulcers.


Super Sulfa
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
Anti-fungal/anti-bacterial medication for treating cottony patches, fin and tail rot, white body and fin blotches, fungal infections, molly disease and bacterial infections.


Furanace
Manufacturer: Aquarium Products
Antibiotic which treats fin and tail rot, mouth and eye sores, cloudy eyes, wasting away, bacterial infections, fungal infections, pop eye, and molly/tetra disease. Do not use with inverts!
Active Ingredient: erythromycin


Myacin
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
Anti-fungal/anti-bacterial medication for treating cottony patches, fin and tail rot, white body and fin blotches, fungal infections, molly disease and bacterial infections.

Salt

Contrary to popular view, it is not advisable to add salt to your aquarium on an ongoing basis unless the fish require brackish water. But it can be quite beneficial when used at the right time. It's not a bad idea to use short-term when helping fish ward off secondary diseases or when hoping to prevent them (such as after a location change, etc). It is also an effective treatment for certain problems:

As a cure for fungus, or to help relieving swelling, use can use a tablespoon of salt per gallon.

Use sodium chloride (Aquarium, rock, or kosher Salt) for fungus;
use magnesium sulfate (Epson Salt) for internal swelling or constipation.

There are appropriate concentrations for short term dips intended to last from 5-10 minutes, or up to 30 at longest. Use 1tsp per cup of water for a dip. Use a teaspoon per gallon if you want to add this to the fish's tank as a live-in bath: change 25% of the water weekly and do not add additional salt.

 

[skye4jc]

Well, i medicated my little guy this morning, went out to the doc myself (im sickums too! ), and tonight, when i got home... ya.... - he was gone. thanks for all the help everyone, you have been great as usual... but my work is not yet done. i am still at a loss as to what it was that took him.

DISCLAIMER: The following info is very grafic and if you are easily upset or grossed out, i suggest you dont continue reading!!

when i saw him he had gone from dark blue/purple body to sheet white (in a matter of hours!) and was not trditionally floating on the top, but rather, he had sunk to the bottom. upon post-mortem the smell of his lifeless body was not a normal "dead-fish" smell... it was almost acetone and bloody, and the scales and flesh on his head (where the "hole" or "sore" had begun, and since spread) were sloughing off in clumps, exposing his skull. that sore had exibited a fuzzyness to it over the last 2 days aswell. His internal organs were fine upon examination - no swelling or internal bleeding... there were no signs of parasites, fungus or worms, although he was unusually externally slimy (i think... but clear slime... normal fish coating i presume) and his eyes had gone cloudy, which they were not this morning (i checked!).

so, i still dont understand it... if there is a fish expert in the house or a vet, i was wondering if you could diagnose him so i can prevent it from happeneing again. tks

ps SRC -

could you email me all that info that you quoted, or let me know where you got your info? i would love to print it all off to have on hand for my customers at petsmart! much tks! B)

 

[WILDER]

Was water quality good, it sounds like a bacteria infection got hold of him.

 

[vanvran]

So sorry to hear about your betta. Mine has been similarly ill since OCTOBER! I tried Bettafix for a couple of weeks but didn't see much improvement. Here's the symptoms he has had:

Head turned brown in color
Large white areas over 2/3 of his body -- does that indicate scales fell off?
Loss of color
Lower fin turned red
Under throat is white
White around one eye
Sluggish
No bubble nest since October
Swollen
Stringy mucusy stuff in water

This is what I did:

Did two water changes a week
Cut back on food and also feed him 1 pea a day
Upped aquarium salt dose to 1 tsp in his gallon bowl
Bought Jungle Fungus Eliminator--use 30-40 crystals per 1/2 gallon in his bowl

Before switching to Jungle FE, I had used Melafix and found little response.

The JFE seemed to start working within a week--almost all the white areas have filled in blue, the brown color went away, he looks less swollen. He began swimming around, stopped laying on bottom of bowl and eats well. No bubble nest though. So, now what? I took him off the JFE to give his little body a break, and he starts getting a brown head and stringy white stuff on him again, so he's back on the JFE until he is 100% better. I don't know if it's the right treatment, but at least he seems 85% back to normal.

 

[skye4jc]

tks vanvran,

it sounds like our bettas had very similar issues... too bad mine is in fishy heaven now. however, i will write down your method and keep it on hand incase of another betta emergency similar to this one. let me know if you can ever stop the treatment and if it cures your little guy fully. i hope he gets better soon!!

ps... yes the scales fell off of my betta's head, but thats not to say yours did..
and would it be possible if you could let me know how often you added JFE & salt, how often you fed him a frozen pea, how much food (pellets, i assume?) = "cutting back", and what percentage of the gallon bowl you removed in each water change? that would really help me out! tks soooo much!

pps... i dont suppose you kow what this sickness is, do you? oh, and one more thing... how old is your betta??

 

[vanvran]

I have had him for 14 months, don't know how old he was when purchased. I followed instructions on www.bettatalk.com (which is an excellent site for bettas) re: the Jungle Fungus Eliminator, using 30-40 cyrstals per 1/2 gallon, and I used 1 tsp. salt per gallon. Did a partial water change every 4 days and a full water change on day 7. I will keep you posted. I want to move him into a heated tank, since I read heat kills parasites in case he has those too. Seems like he has a touch of fungus, and velvet. Don't really know what he has, but the JFE is doing a decent job.