very paranoid newbie

[Susielyd]

Hi All,
I bought a 6 gallon tank for Christmas for my family (don't know if that is US or UK gallons - I am in Australia if that helps).
A bit of history, we started with 3 goldfish 18 months ago. Neither of us knew ANYTHING about fish. It was a tiny little (approx)2.5 gallon tank, but it worked. After about 6 months one died. The others were going strong. Long story shorter, we got 4 other fish (not all at once) and they are all dead ~ flushed the last one this morning. We still have one of the originals, looking a bit battered, but still hanging on.
So anyway...... I decided that tropicals may be easier to deal with. I did a bit of research and did run the tank for a week before we put fish in. I went to the fish store and chose 3 guppies and 3 platies. I was advised that these 2 were compatible and relatively hardy. Before I left he gave me some 'Amtrite down' which is supposed to help with the nitrites and promote beneficial bacteria. I had the heater going and all appeared ok so I put them in and within 1 hour the male guppie was a floater. They replaced him and a day later his replacement was finished too. I put his bag in the water for about 20 minutes to make the water the same temp.
Now, I know that I am really high strung and paranoid, but I really don't want to stuff this up. I was about to go get more fish today when I found this site.... now my questions are:

1. How many fish will safely fit in this 6 gallon tank? (the pet shop guy said 12 of guppie or platie size)

2. If I am to quarantine any new ones, what kind of tank do I need?

3. How often should I be cleaning it with the current 5 fish

4. I was advised to keep them at approx 75*/24*C, now, I have the heater set at 24*, but the thermometer says that they are at 28*. Am I going to fry my
fishies? I put some ice cubes in at the filter part thingy to try to cool them off a bit. The house does get a bit warm as it is the middle of summer in Oz..

5 Will I ever be able just to sit back and enjoy the fish or will I be constantly testing all of the components?

Thank you for your patience and help

 

[Vip]

Dont know what could go in there but dont bash yourself over the goldfish because they shouldnt go in tanks at all they let out alot of ammonia witch ends up killing them but hey everyone is a newbie to that arnt they

Welcome to the forums.

 

[NinjaSmurf]

First, I hate to tell you, the goldfish is in a tank that is waaaay too small for it. If you look in the coldwater section of the forum there is a pinned article about keeping goldfish in tanks, that will hopefully help you out. If it is your common sort of goldfish (commet, i.e. feeders) your looking at something that will get pretty big. Basic rule for goldfish is twenty gallons for the first fish, then ten for every one after that. Just going by your original amount of goldfish you would have needed a forty gallon tank minimum. Big surprise huh? Got me the first time too. Oh, another big rule, no mixing of tropical fish and goldfish, the temps are too different and ripped fins are almost definite. It's like putting a penguin in with a parrot, different parts of the world, (okay, lets just pretend tropical penguins don't exist for the moment) different needs.



1. There's a guideline that most of use when dealing with fish that only reach about an inch or two in size, and that is one inch of adult fish per gallon (it doesn't work on bigger fish, so then it's just a matter of finding out from people who know for that kind of fish). That means that even if you get a small baby fish (fry) then you have to calculate to the fishes adult size, not how big it is when you first get it. For the six gallon, I'd keep it at five inches worth of fish, but I'm sure someone else knows better, I have a tendency to overstock with guppies and the like, but only because I keep up with the tank.


2. When you get your first tank, it's not really necessary. I don't personally because I don't have enough room for another tank that won't be used much, even though I have three tanks. For right now you don't have to worry about anything except taking care of the fish you have now.


3. A water change of 25% is usually the regular amount of cleaning that needs to be done. If you get a syphon at the pet store (ask them, they should know what you're talking about) you can clean the poop out of the gravel, and that will also take water out of your tank, so bam, water change and less poop in your tank! You might have to do more because of being in the middle of a cycle. (more on that later)

4. I suck at conversions, so someone else is going to have to help you out on that one...


5. It doesn't look like it now, but yes.



I can tell you right now though that the reason you've had fish dying is because it doesn't sound like you cycled your tank. There is a pinned article on that right here in the beginner section (I think, it should be, I'm really dumb right now) that will tell you all you need to know. Since you already have the fish, it might be best to just cycle the tank with fish, which it should also tell you how to do. Overall, do some research, use the search engine on the forum to see if you can't find any answers to any of your questions and if you can't just post them and we'll try to help.

Welcome to that addiction!

 

[Susielyd]

just a bit of clarification - I do have the goldfish in a seperate tank (the one that I know now is waaaay too small, oops...) from the tropicals

and about the temps 29*c is 84*F

thank you for your comments and help

 

[Susielyd]

ok, I have just read the thing about cycling again. I am feeling very blonde today (no offence intended to blondes in general ) and need to know, what do I actually need to DO. The pinned cycle thing in the beginner questions just lists readings and that kind of thing.....
Feel free to laugh if I am missing something totally obvious..........

 

[NinjaSmurf]

Okay, now I feel stupid, having never read the article myself (by the time I knew about cycling it had already happened ) I didn't know it was like that. Made my brain hurt too. (no offence to who wrote it, just readings and such give me a headache) I did, however, just read the Avoiding and treating New tank syndrome article, and for the first time understand the nitrogen cycle (take that evil high school!) and it should explain everything pretty well. If you just keep the fish and cycle with them there should be someone around here that can fill you in on how many water changes and such. Some people will tell you to take the fish back, but I know that sometimes there is no taking them back and you have to deal with what you have. If you can, then you can, but if you can't, you gotta deal, right? One thing I am sort worried about is the fact that you have livebearers, who have also been referred to as water rabbits due to their ceaseless baby-making abilities. Check out the livebearer forum to find out anything about them you want to know. Hopefully they won't decide to bless your tank with anymore mouths to feed.

 

[yvez9]

guppies and platies will reproduce a lot if you have males and females but if you don't want to raise the fry, just leave them in the tank and the larger fish will eat them.

as for cycling with fish, it's what i did, be prepared to do lots of water changes. preferably 20% everyday. On a 6 agallon tank it's not that much.

Or better yet, if you have a friend with a fish tank, you could instantly cycle yours by using some gravel from his tank. If you don't have a friend with a fish tank, forget about this.

I recommend you at least get an ammonia and nitrite test kit. These will be very useful in letting you know how far into the cycle you are!

Taking a look at the Avoiding and Treating New Tank Syndrome thread will help you understand what cycling is and why it is necessary for your fish to be healthy!

 

[sylvia]

That avoiding new tank syndrome link can be found in my signature - deffinately read that through CAREFULY and make sure you understand.


To answer your original questions (I'm probably repeting what other people have said here but it won't hurt to go over it again):

1. How many fish will safely fit in this 6 gallon tank? (the pet shop guy said 12 of guppie or platie size)
- The pet shop guy is wrong In this tank you can keep about 4 MALE guppies OR 3 platies. I reccomend you go for all males. The first reason is that they are smaller and more colorful (guppies) and the seccond is that with females you will have fry - whether there is a male present or not does not matter as they can store sperm for up to 4 months. Right now you don't want to be dealing with fry. If you are prepaired to do so for the sake of your fish, return 3 of the fish - prefferably the guppies as they are less hardy.

2. If I am to quarantine any new ones, what kind of tank do I need?
- A plane 2 gallon tank would work for you. All it would need is a small sponge filter and heater and maybe a small ceramic pot or fake plant. You should put the sponge filter in your established tank (the 6 gallon) for a few days before getting the new fish. Then move the sponge to your quarantine tank just before bringing home the new fish. Quarantine for about 2 weeks and don't add more than one fish at a time because your tank is very small and adding too many fish at once can send it completely off-balance. You will udnerstand this more once you have got a hang of 'cycling'. At the moment I would forget about the quarantine tank as you won't be adding new fish for a while.

3. How often should I be cleaning it with the current 5 fish
- Cleaning is rather vague. With a normaly stocked and cycled tank, you should do a partial 20-25% water change every week with DE-CHLORINATED water. At the same time, you should do a gravel vacuum to remove debris that has not been sucked out by the filter. Every month or so, you should take your filter media out and rinse in a bucket of OLD TANK WATER - NEVER under the tap or in any water that contains chlorine as this kills off the beneficial bacteria.

Your tank, however, is over-stocked and un-cycled. As such, you should be doing small water changes daily to keep ammonia/nitrIte (the harmful toxins that build up from fish waste and are supposed to be converted to nitrAtes by the beneficial bacteria) as low as possible. High concentrations of these substances can poison your fish and can result in long-term damage or death.

With a cycled tank, the ammonia from fish waste is converted to nitrIte and then to the less harmful nitrAte. NitrAte is then removed by a weekly partial water change.

Buy a test kit to monitor these levels.

Once cycled, you will permanently have 0 ammonia/nitrIte readings and should keep nitrAte under 40 with your weekly water change.

4. I was advised to keep them at approx 75*/24*C, now, I have the heater set at 24*, but the thermometer says that they are at 28*. Am I going to fry my
fishies? I put some ice cubes in at the filter part thingy to try to cool them off a bit. The house does get a bit warm as it is the middle of summer in Oz..

I'd say a temp. of around 76-78 deg F is good for guppies/platies so lower the temperature a bit.

5 Will I ever be able just to sit back and enjoy the fish or will I be constantly testing all of the components?

- Once your tank is cycled, a weekly water change and gravel vac. is all you will need to keep your fish healthy (plus daily feedings). So, yes, you will be able to sit back and relax.

The cycling process takes about 6 weeks with fish. All I suggest you do now is remove 3 of the fish and take them back to your LFS. This will make the cycling process a lot less stressful and mean your fish have a much higher chance of living through this. Cycling is very stressful as it is, an over-stocked tank also means you will need to do water changes twice weekly once cycled to keep everything under control. Ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes build up much faster if you have too many fish.

The other thing you MUST do to keep the fish alive is daily water changes. Because of the size of the tank and number of fish, your ammonia and nitrItes will build up very quickly. You should get de-chlorinator from your LFS to add to the water BEFORE putting it in your tank. Every day, take out about 2 gallons of water. You'll need to keep this up for about a week. After that you should be able to reduce the water change to 2 gallons every other day.

Also buy a test kit for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte. The liquid-based ones are best. They can be slightly more expensive but are way more accurate and won't fool you with messed up readings like the strips will.

Test your tank's water and also your tap water and post your results here.

During a cycle, ammonia will spike, then slowly decrease. Then you will see nitrIte spike and decrease and lastly nitrAte will spike and only water changes can keep that low. Once you see nitrItes begin to go down, you can reduce your water changes to once a week. Always test your water BEFORE a water change. If you do it after, you may not be getting accurate readings as you are not taking into account the stuff you took out .

You can speed up the cycle by adding filter media or gravel/substrate from an established tank. You can get this from an LFS or a friend but make sure you are always using de-chlorinated water. Otherwise, your tank can never cycle as the bacteria will be wiped out each time by the chlorine.

I don't know what else to say Feel free to ask and read ALL the threads pinned in the beginners forum.

I also suggest you read through this: http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/12tips.htm

It's very breif but it gives you an idea of the things you need to look into There are also links to further info.

Good luck!

 

[Susielyd]

Thanks Sylvia
Brilliant information - Wish I had learned this before, but ah well, better late than never!
Kind regards,
Susan