Valentines nightmare

A quick observation re most stores which sell fish. Their ideal holding period for most fish before they are sold would be a few minutes. But that is not how it works. But they do turn over fish in fairly short order. This means even if their water conditions are not ideal for the fishm those fish are in and out fairly fast.

Next, most of the people working in the fish depratments of pets stores and some of the flocal fsh stores are not all that well educated on the fish. Their job is to sell customers more, not less.

Finally,it is not possible to acclimate fish to clearly different condition in a matter of hours. There are internal biochemical processes which have to adapt (if possible) and this takes weeks not hours or even days. I have not acclimated new fish in at least 15 years and likely more like 18. I lop and drop. Fish out of the bag and into the home water ASAP with no bag water going into the tank. If I am getting enough to be going into multiple Q tanks, I may float the bags of fish goint into each tank to sort them, not to do anything about temperature.

Consider that in most lakes and rivers the deeper one goes, the colder the water gets. Do we think fish go up and down very gradually to acclimate to temperture changes? Or how about fish which live in water where there are seasonal changes. To induce some of my plecos to spawn I will raise the water temp from the mid 80sF to the low 90s and when it is time to simulate the seasonal changes I will drop the water temp into the high 70s in 24 to 36 hours. This doesn't harm them, it induces them to spawn, hopefully.

Yes there arecertain species which are much less able to live in a range of parameters. Consider the devils hole pupfish in Nevada, it is found in only one place in the world:

"Devils Hole Pupfish
Earlier pluvial (wet) periods allowed colonization of present sites; subsequent xeric (dry) conditions served to isolate the aquatic habitats, with the result that the inhabiting organisms have differentiated and evolved into the relict species found today. The Devils Hole pupfish have been isolated 10,000 to 20,000 years, longer than any other in the Death Valley system. Devils Hole itself is a water-filled cavern cut into the side of a hill. The cavern is over 500 feet (152 m) deep and the bottom has never been mapped. Devils Hole provides its resident pupfish with conditions of constant temperature (92°F, 33°C) and salinity, unlike the fluctuating environments of many other pupfish. Although pupfish have been found as deep as 66 feet (20 m), the fish forage and spawn exclusively on a shallow rock shelf near the surface, feeding on the algae and diatoms found there. The Devils Hole pupfish is considered an annual species, with the historic population fluctuating between 100 - 200 in winter and 300-500 in late summer. Research indicates that pupfish population numbers respond primarily to the amount of algae present on the shelf. The algal growth depends, in turn, on the amount of solar radiation the shelf receives and the concentration of nutrients in the water. Finally, recent evidence suggests that nutrient availability is highest when the cave is used by barn owls (Tyto alba) as a roosting/nesting site. The owls increase the pool nutrient levels by casting nutrient-rich pellets into the water."
https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/devils-hole.htm

Attempts to remove a few of the fish and to breed them in captivity have all failed miserably. So here is a perfect example of a fish that no amount of acclimation can make it possible to relocate them from the wild. But this is an exception not the rule. As long as there is a range of parameters specified for any species,and as long as it is within those parameters, it should be able to live a normal life. In fact, well cared for fish in aquariums can live longer than their normal life expectancy.
 
A quick observation re most stores which sell fish. Their ideal holding period for most fish before they are sold would be a few minutes. But that is not how it works. But they do turn over fish in fairly short order. This means even if their water conditions are not ideal for the fishm those fish are in and out fairly fast.

Next, most of the people working in the fish depratments of pets stores and some of the flocal fsh stores are not all that well educated on the fish. Their job is to sell customers more, not less.

Finally,it is not possible to acclimate fish to clearly different condition in a matter of hours. There are internal biochemical processes which have to adapt (if possible) and this takes weeks not hours or even days. I have not acclimated new fish in at least 15 years and likely more like 18. I lop and drop. Fish out of the bag and into the home water ASAP with no bag water going into the tank. If I am getting enough to be going into multiple Q tanks, I may float the bags of fish goint into each tank to sort them, not to do anything about temperature.

Consider that in most lakes and rivers the deeper one goes, the colder the water gets. Do we think fish go up and down very gradually to acclimate to temperture changes? Or how about fish which live in water where there are seasonal changes. To induce some of my plecos to spawn I will raise the water temp from the mid 80sF to the low 90s and when it is time to simulate the seasonal changes I will drop the water temp into the high 70s in 24 to 36 hours. This doesn't harm them, it induces them to spawn, hopefully.

Yes there arecertain species which are much less able to live in a range of parameters. Consider the devils hole pupfish in Nevada, it is found in only one place in the world:

"Devils Hole Pupfish
Earlier pluvial (wet) periods allowed colonization of present sites; subsequent xeric (dry) conditions served to isolate the aquatic habitats, with the result that the inhabiting organisms have differentiated and evolved into the relict species found today. The Devils Hole pupfish have been isolated 10,000 to 20,000 years, longer than any other in the Death Valley system. Devils Hole itself is a water-filled cavern cut into the side of a hill. The cavern is over 500 feet (152 m) deep and the bottom has never been mapped. Devils Hole provides its resident pupfish with conditions of constant temperature (92°F, 33°C) and salinity, unlike the fluctuating environments of many other pupfish. Although pupfish have been found as deep as 66 feet (20 m), the fish forage and spawn exclusively on a shallow rock shelf near the surface, feeding on the algae and diatoms found there. The Devils Hole pupfish is considered an annual species, with the historic population fluctuating between 100 - 200 in winter and 300-500 in late summer. Research indicates that pupfish population numbers respond primarily to the amount of algae present on the shelf. The algal growth depends, in turn, on the amount of solar radiation the shelf receives and the concentration of nutrients in the water. Finally, recent evidence suggests that nutrient availability is highest when the cave is used by barn owls (Tyto alba) as a roosting/nesting site. The owls increase the pool nutrient levels by casting nutrient-rich pellets into the water."
https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/devils-hole.htm

Attempts to remove a few of the fish and to breed them in captivity have all failed miserably. So here is a perfect example of a fish that no amount of acclimation can make it possible to relocate them from the wild. But this is an exception not the rule. As long as there is a range of parameters specified for any species,and as long as it is within those parameters, it should be able to live a normal life. In fact, well cared for fish in aquariums can live longer than their normal life expectancy.

Very interesting point about the temperature fluctuations - I've often worried how fish deal with hardness fluctuations in the wild too. Some in the hobby come from pretty stable regions of softwater (eg. amazon) or hardwater (eg. riftlakes) but some habitats fluctuate with the rains. Myanmar is an interesting one, lots of limestone mountains and river beds but some flood plains that deplete to quite acidic levels but between the rainfall and the flood plains its quite a large range. Similarly fish with a wide distribution from depths of swaps to coastal waters - a few spring to mind X-Ray Tetras, Spotted Dora Catfish and Oil Catfish etc. Though obviously some fish have evolved very specifically for many many generations.

Wills
 
Here is what I do know. I have watched muriatic be dosed directly into a tank with the result that the digital meter in the tank showed that the pH dropped by 1.1 in under five minutes. This tanks held a number of altum angels. They did not appear to even notice that change.

Since then I have gotten altums myself and have repeated the above in my own tank with the same result. But i woll confess that I only dropped the pH by 1.0. The fish did not notice at all.

I would not try this will many fish. But those angel cam out of waters with a pH around 4.2. They had neem acclimated up over time. When the pH rises as it did in the above cases, the solution was to get it back to the desired level. The fish handled it fine because they can handle very soft acid water normally. I would never suggest one try this with Rift lake cichlids. Nor would I try to raise the pH by 1 or more rapidly for altum angels.

Each species has its own tolerances/ If we take this into consideration it becomes clear that there are very few hard and fast rules in this hobby once we get past, "fish need to be kept in water."

Nature is a marvelous thing. It makes species evolve to sthrive in the conditins where they live. So one fish needs fairly rigid parameters (this the devil's hole pupfish) while other can handle a range of parameters and do just fine. Out job as keepers is to learn these things in order to know what fish we can keep and how to manage our parameters.

We know we should not normally keep FW or SW fish in each others environements. And then there are salmon and amano shrimp and a bunch of other aquatic critters which can thrive in both waters or need to move back and forth to reproduce. Bear in mind that the fish in the African Risft Lakes were originally sw fish and the current lakes were also salt water fish until they got cut off from the sea and the lakes began to change.

AIn't nature grand.
 
Yeah that's sad, the store keeps them in hard water also so atleast they're no worse off.
Simply because at a store they won't stay in there for long. That's why harder water won't hurt them at the store.
 
Thats true I hadn't thought of that before...
Most people will put them in hard water anyway, the average fish keeper don't even bother with forums and just take the shop owners word.
 
Most people will put them in hard water anyway, the average fish keeper don't even bother with forums and just take the shop owners word.
Indeed. Most novice aquarists take the word of the store...
 
Anyways the Black skirt are kinda a blessing because they eat all the fry so keeps stuff under control
 
If you had to soften water one of those will do it.
I'm aware of that, I don't want to soften water as large majority of my tank are hard water species. I may well get a second tank in the future and swap a few things over but for now they'll have to stay put
 

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