Using Flourish In 10 Gallon Tank

[Jason1039]

So I have a 10 gallon tank that is very lightly planted. I have small bunch of Java Fern on some driftwood, and some Anubias nana.NO special gravel,special lighting,CO2, or fertilizers YET. My tank has very low LED lights. But I've surprisingly gotten 4 or 5 new growth from the rhizomes and mother plants, a couple weeks after I got them

. I have some Flourish (just the regular Seachem Flourish, NOT the excel or phosphorus or anything like that) and i wanted to use it in my 10 gallon. The thing is the directions on the bottle is not very clear on how to dose it for anything smaller that 60 US gallons.It doesn't say you have to use Xml for 1 US gallon. I haven't used flourish before, or any fertilizers for that matter so here are my questions.
 
 
1) How much Flourish should i use for 10 gallons?For Example; X millimeters for 1 gallon
 
2) How often should I dose the tank with flourish? Everyday, every other day... after every water change....etc
 
3) Will Seachem Flourish hurt my Male Veil Tail Betta?
 
4) Is flourish ok to use with java fern and anubias nanas?
 
5) I dont have to use any other Seachem products along with the regular flourish right? 
 
 
BTW: Using CO2 is not really an option for me

 

[bigcheed]

anubias are pretty hardy plants and like java fern dont need alot of light. i have used flourish in the past and its ok but there are better ones. its completly safe for your your fish. but if you have shrimp you need to be wary. 1ml per gallon is about right as dosage goes but the plants you have are doing ok without any so if you just want to give a little boost try half a dose once a week. as far as c02 goes you shouldnt really need it unless your tank becomes heavily planted. in which case you can buy liquid co2 and dose your tank each morning. never at night as the plants wont use it while the lights are off and it could become toxic to your fish. personally i use easylife profito as fertilizer and easy life easycarbo for co2. they are cheaper than seachem stuff and you get more in a bottle. hope this helps good luck.

 

[Byron]

I would agree that you may not need to add fertilizer here.  Plant nutrients occur from fish foods (as the organic waste left by fish in the substrate) and water changes (these replenish the "hard" minerals).  Java Fern and Anubias are both slow-growing plants, and slow-growers need less nutrients and light, so they may do fine as it appears they are now.
 
Adding more nutrients than the plants can utilize can cause algae issues, just as having too much light intensity or too little.  Insufficient nutrients for the plants can also cause algae.  In all these situations, algae takes advantage because the light/nutrient balance is not suited to the plants.  As I said above, you may have that balance now, so I would leave things as they are; if obvious plant issues appear, you can consider fertilizers (or whatever), depending upon the issue.
 
On the Flourish, I use these products [I cannot get the Easylife products mentioned by Chris, I believe this is readily available in the UK] and since you are in the US you might find the Seachem line easier and less expensive.  Should you need to add something, the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement [the one you seem to have] is the one to start with.  I use about a 1/4 teaspoon in my 10g; 1/2 tsp treats 30 gallons, and for my other six tanks it is easier as they are larger, but in the 10g I do about half of 1/2 tsp after the water change.  You can dose this product once or twice a week, but I wouldn't use it more.  This line of products is not intended for high-tech systems that require daily nutrient supplementation, but more for the natural or low-tech methods as you and I have.  The Flourish Comp has everything plants need (except oxygen, hydrogen and carbon) and the 14 nutrients are in proportion according to the needs of aquatic plants.
 
Unless overdosed excessively, Flourish will not hurt fish or invertebrates (snails, shrimp).  There is not sufficient copper to cause harm, provided you don't exceed the recommended dose, and plants will take this up fairly quickly.  Slow-growing plants will obviously not take up as much or as quickly, but so far I think you're OK as is.
 
As for the other products in the Flourish line, it depends upon your particular situation.  Your water GH (general hardness) is crucial for faster-growing plants because this is their major source of the hard minerals like calcium and magnesium, and these are in Flourish Comp but minimally because Seachem assume most people have moderately hard water to start with.  If you happened to have very soft tap water, as I do out here on the west coast, you would likely need to use additional products especially if you decide to add some faster-growing plants.  I use Flourish Comp in all seven tanks, plus Flourish Trace in four, Flourish iron in two, and Equilibrium (the "hard" mineral supplement) in three of my tanks.
 
Hope that answers your questions.
 
Byron.

 

[Jason1039]

I would agree that you may not need to add fertilizer here.  Plant nutrients occur from fish foods (as the organic waste left by fish in the substrate) and water changes (these replenish the "hard" minerals).  Java Fern and Anubias are both slow-growing plants, and slow-growers need less nutrients and light, so they may do fine as it appears they are now.
 
Adding more nutrients than the plants can utilize can cause algae issues, just as having too much light intensity or too little.  Insufficient nutrients for the plants can also cause algae.  In all these situations, algae takes advantage because the light/nutrient balance is not suited to the plants.  As I said above, you may have that balance now, so I would leave things as they are; if obvious plant issues appear, you can consider fertilizers (or whatever), depending upon the issue.
 
On the Flourish, I use these products [I cannot get the Easylife products mentioned by Chris, I believe this is readily available in the UK] and since you are in the US you might find the Seachem line easier and less expensive.  Should you need to add something, the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement [the one you seem to have] is the one to start with.  I use about a 1/4 teaspoon in my 10g; 1/2 tsp treats 30 gallons, and for my other six tanks it is easier as they are larger, but in the 10g I do about half of 1/2 tsp after the water change.  You can dose this product once or twice a week, but I wouldn't use it more.  This line of products is not intended for high-tech systems that require daily nutrient supplementation, but more for the natural or low-tech methods as you and I have.  The Flourish Comp has everything plants need (except oxygen, hydrogen and carbon) and the 14 nutrients are in proportion according to the needs of aquatic plants.
 
Unless overdosed excessively, Flourish will not hurt fish or invertebrates (snails, shrimp).  There is not sufficient copper to cause harm, provided you don't exceed the recommended dose, and plants will take this up fairly quickly.  Slow-growing plants will obviously not take up as much or as quickly, but so far I think you're OK as is.
 
As for the other products in the Flourish line, it depends upon your particular situation.  Your water GH (general hardness) is crucial for faster-growing plants because this is their major source of the hard minerals like calcium and magnesium, and these are in Flourish Comp but minimally because Seachem assume most people have moderately hard water to start with.  If you happened to have very soft tap water, as I do out here on the west coast, you would likely need to use additional products especially if you decide to add some faster-growing plants.  I use Flourish Comp in all seven tanks, plus Flourish Trace in four, Flourish iron in two, and Equilibrium (the "hard" mineral supplement) in three of my tanks.
 
Hope that answers your questions.
 
Byron.

anubias are pretty hardy plants and like java fern dont need alot of light. i have used flourish in the past and its ok but there are better ones. its completly safe for your your fish. but if you have shrimp you need to be wary. 1ml per gallon is about right as dosage goes but the plants you have are doing ok without any so if you just want to give a little boost try half a dose once a week. as far as c02 goes you shouldnt really need it unless your tank becomes heavily planted. in which case you can buy liquid co2 and dose your tank each morning. never at night as the plants wont use it while the lights are off and it could become toxic to your fish. personally i use easylife profito as fertilizer and easy life easycarbo for co2. they are cheaper than seachem stuff and you get more in a bottle. hope this helps good luck.

I know this reply is really late but I appreciate your answers.I also heard that with a stronger wattage lighting you need co2 and vice versa. So if I were to get a stronger light like fluorescent light would I need to have a co2 generator? Cause I would like to add some more plants.

 

[Byron]

I know this reply is really late but I appreciate your answers.I also heard that with a stronger wattage lighting you need co2 and vice versa. So if I were to get a stronger light like fluorescent light would I need to have a co2 generator? Cause I would like to add some more plants.
 

 
It depends upon the plants and the light intensity.
 
Light is what drives photosynthesis; plants cannot photosynthesize without adequate light, adequate meaning the intensity or brightness.  Each plant species has a certain requirement when it comes to light intensity; we group plants very generally as being low light, moderate light or high light requiring.  The less light a plant requires, the fewer nutrients because it is slower growing.  This is very general, and there are overlaps.  CO2 is carbon, a macro-nutrient for plants, but it is produced naturally in any aquarium containing fish.  Fish waste settles into the substrate as organics which are broken down by bacteria.  Several plant nutrients result from this, but chief among them is CO2.  CO2 is also produced by the plants and fish through respiration.  You don't need to add CO2 if you balance the light and nutrients with the natural CO2, and select plants that will manage with this level.
 
When you add stronger light, you speed up the photosynthesis process, which means the plants need more nutrients including CO2.  But it depends upon the plant species, as some will not be able to increase their need for brighter light and higher nutrients by much.  If the light becomes brighter than what is required by the plants, or if there is insufficient nutrients to balance, algae will take the advantage.  The trick to controlling algae is to balance the light and nutrients so that they provide what the plant species require but no more.
 
Now to another issue, wattage.  This is the measurement of the amount of energy a bulb or tube needs to produce its light.  Unless you are comparing identical bulbs or tubes, wattage is not an indicator of less or more light.  For example, the older type of 4-foot fluorescent tubes in T12 or T8 required 40 watts, but the newer more energy-efficient T8 tubes only use 32w, yet they produce the same light or actually a bit more as they are better quality.  The way a tube or bulb is manufactured determines the light output, both the intensity and the spectrum, and both are important.
 
You have LED lighting, and my experience with this is zero, but other members will likely be able to offer help with this.  But first we will need to know the output of your present light.  There will probably be brighter lighting in LED available for your tank, and this may or may not involve CO2 issues.  To be honest, for a 10 gallon tank, I would not mess with diffused CO2.  This is entering into another realm where water conditions will be affected, and most aquarists don't find it beneficial in so small a tank.
 
I have had T8 fluorescent tubes over a 10 gallon, and my present 10 gallon has two CFL 10w daylight bulbs.  Both of these gave me good plant growth without adding CO2.  I would expect there is a LED fixture available that is comparable.
 
It would also help if you indicate the plants you are thinking of; you have quite a choice with just the moderate light and no CO2.
 
Byron.

 

[Jason1039]

I know this reply is really late but I appreciate your answers.I also heard that with a stronger wattage lighting you need co2 and vice versa. So if I were to get a stronger light like fluorescent light would I need to have a co2 generator? Cause I would like to add some more plants.

 
It depends upon the plants and the light intensity.
 
Light is what drives photosynthesis; plants cannot photosynthesize without adequate light, adequate meaning the intensity or brightness.  Each plant species has a certain requirement when it comes to light intensity; we group plants very generally as being low light, moderate light or high light requiring.  The less light a plant requires, the fewer nutrients because it is slower growing.  This is very general, and there are overlaps.  CO2 is carbon, a macro-nutrient for plants, but it is produced naturally in any aquarium containing fish.  Fish waste settles into the substrate as organics which are broken down by bacteria.  Several plant nutrients result from this, but chief among them is CO2.  CO2 is also produced by the plants and fish through respiration.  You don't need to add CO2 if you balance the light and nutrients with the natural CO2, and select plants that will manage with this level.
 
When you add stronger light, you speed up the photosynthesis process, which means the plants need more nutrients including CO2.  But it depends upon the plant species, as some will not be able to increase their need for brighter light and higher nutrients by much.  If the light becomes brighter than what is required by the plants, or if there is insufficient nutrients to balance, algae will take the advantage.  The trick to controlling algae is to balance the light and nutrients so that they provide what the plant species require but no more.
 
Now to another issue, wattage.  This is the measurement of the amount of energy a bulb or tube needs to produce its light.  Unless you are comparing identical bulbs or tubes, wattage is not an indicator of less or more light.  For example, the older type of 4-foot fluorescent tubes in T12 or T8 required 40 watts, but the newer more energy-efficient T8 tubes only use 32w, yet they produce the same light or actually a bit more as they are better quality.  The way a tube or bulb is manufactured determines the light output, both the intensity and the spectrum, and both are important.
 
You have LED lighting, and my experience with this is zero, but other members will likely be able to offer help with this.  But first we will need to know the output of your present light.  There will probably be brighter lighting in LED available for your tank, and this may or may not involve CO2 issues.  To be honest, for a 10 gallon tank, I would not mess with diffused CO2.  This is entering into another realm where water conditions will be affected, and most aquarists don't find it beneficial in so small a tank.
 
I have had T8 fluorescent tubes over a 10 gallon, and my present 10 gallon has two CFL 10w daylight bulbs.  Both of these gave me good plant growth without adding CO2.  I would expect there is a LED fixture available that is comparable.
 
It would also help if you indicate the plants you are thinking of; you have quite a choice with just the moderate light and no CO2.
 
Byron.

I've been trying to find the wattage of these lights since I got them,and I can't seem to find it.but I already know that they are very low quality.Despite the fact that they are LED, I've got a lot of new growth on the rhizome just after about 2 weeks of getting it,and some on the tips of the bigger plants,so I guess I did something right there. I would like to switch out these lights to something much stronger. I heard that dome lights do pretty good with a glass canopy, and I'm willing to do that if I can't find a light to fit my 10gal.
As for the plants I was thinking of are
Amazon Sword
Dwarf hairgrass
ludwigia glandulosa
and maybe some Java moss

Possibly more in the future

 

[Byron]

 

 

I know this reply is really late but I appreciate your answers.I also heard that with a stronger wattage lighting you need co2 and vice versa. So if I were to get a stronger light like fluorescent light would I need to have a co2 generator? Cause I would like to add some more plants.

 
It depends upon the plants and the light intensity.
 
Light is what drives photosynthesis; plants cannot photosynthesize without adequate light, adequate meaning the intensity or brightness.  Each plant species has a certain requirement when it comes to light intensity; we group plants very generally as being low light, moderate light or high light requiring.  The less light a plant requires, the fewer nutrients because it is slower growing.  This is very general, and there are overlaps.  CO2 is carbon, a macro-nutrient for plants, but it is produced naturally in any aquarium containing fish.  Fish waste settles into the substrate as organics which are broken down by bacteria.  Several plant nutrients result from this, but chief among them is CO2.  CO2 is also produced by the plants and fish through respiration.  You don't need to add CO2 if you balance the light and nutrients with the natural CO2, and select plants that will manage with this level.
 
When you add stronger light, you speed up the photosynthesis process, which means the plants need more nutrients including CO2.  But it depends upon the plant species, as some will not be able to increase their need for brighter light and higher nutrients by much.  If the light becomes brighter than what is required by the plants, or if there is insufficient nutrients to balance, algae will take the advantage.  The trick to controlling algae is to balance the light and nutrients so that they provide what the plant species require but no more.
 
Now to another issue, wattage.  This is the measurement of the amount of energy a bulb or tube needs to produce its light.  Unless you are comparing identical bulbs or tubes, wattage is not an indicator of less or more light.  For example, the older type of 4-foot fluorescent tubes in T12 or T8 required 40 watts, but the newer more energy-efficient T8 tubes only use 32w, yet they produce the same light or actually a bit more as they are better quality.  The way a tube or bulb is manufactured determines the light output, both the intensity and the spectrum, and both are important.
 
You have LED lighting, and my experience with this is zero, but other members will likely be able to offer help with this.  But first we will need to know the output of your present light.  There will probably be brighter lighting in LED available for your tank, and this may or may not involve CO2 issues.  To be honest, for a 10 gallon tank, I would not mess with diffused CO2.  This is entering into another realm where water conditions will be affected, and most aquarists don't find it beneficial in so small a tank.
 
I have had T8 fluorescent tubes over a 10 gallon, and my present 10 gallon has two CFL 10w daylight bulbs.  Both of these gave me good plant growth without adding CO2.  I would expect there is a LED fixture available that is comparable.
 
It would also help if you indicate the plants you are thinking of; you have quite a choice with just the moderate light and no CO2.
 
Byron.

I've been trying to find the wattage of these lights since I got them,and I can't seem to find it.but I already know that they are very low quality.Despite the fact that they are LED, I've got a lot of new growth on the rhizome just after about 2 weeks of getting it,and some on the tips of the bigger plants,so I guess I did something right there. I would like to switch out these lights to something much stronger. I heard that dome lights do pretty good with a glass canopy, and I'm willing to do that if I can't find a light to fit my 10gal.
As for the plants I was thinking of are
Amazon Sword
Dwarf hairgrass
ludwigia glandulosa
and maybe some Java moss

Possibly more in the future
 


Amazon sword is moderate light, but it will outgrow a 10g in short order.  I would suggest either of the two chain species of sword, Helanthium tenellum is the smaller and H. bolivianus is a bit larger [names may vary, this whole genus has undergone reclassification] but both these are "chain sword plants" that send out runners and proliferate rapidly.  The larger would easily reach close to the surface in a 10g.
 
Java Moss is low light, so with floating plants it will be happy.  Ludwigia should work OK with moderate lighting in a 10g, though being a stem plant it will grow fairly quickly and require regular trimming/pruning.
 
The dwarf hairgrass is hard to call.  This plant needs stronger light and CO2 does benefit, but in larger (= deeper) tanks.  Others have said they have good luck with this without CO2, and in a 10g I would think it might be fine.
 
So putting all this together...I would not go overboard on lighting.  The response of the plants you now have will be a good indicator.  Increasing the light too much in so small a space is bound to cause real algae issues.  And CO2 I would not mess with in a 10g regardless.
 
Byron.

 

[Jason1039]

I know this reply is really late but I appreciate your answers.I also heard that with a stronger wattage lighting you need co2 and vice versa. So if I were to get a stronger light like fluorescent light would I need to have a co2 generator? Cause I would like to add some more plants.

 
It depends upon the plants and the light intensity.
 
Light is what drives photosynthesis; plants cannot photosynthesize without adequate light, adequate meaning the intensity or brightness.  Each plant species has a certain requirement when it comes to light intensity; we group plants very generally as being low light, moderate light or high light requiring.  The less light a plant requires, the fewer nutrients because it is slower growing.  This is very general, and there are overlaps.  CO2 is carbon, a macro-nutrient for plants, but it is produced naturally in any aquarium containing fish.  Fish waste settles into the substrate as organics which are broken down by bacteria.  Several plant nutrients result from this, but chief among them is CO2.  CO2 is also produced by the plants and fish through respiration.  You don't need to add CO2 if you balance the light and nutrients with the natural CO2, and select plants that will manage with this level.
 
When you add stronger light, you speed up the photosynthesis process, which means the plants need more nutrients including CO2.  But it depends upon the plant species, as some will not be able to increase their need for brighter light and higher nutrients by much.  If the light becomes brighter than what is required by the plants, or if there is insufficient nutrients to balance, algae will take the advantage.  The trick to controlling algae is to balance the light and nutrients so that they provide what the plant species require but no more.
 
Now to another issue, wattage.  This is the measurement of the amount of energy a bulb or tube needs to produce its light.  Unless you are comparing identical bulbs or tubes, wattage is not an indicator of less or more light.  For example, the older type of 4-foot fluorescent tubes in T12 or T8 required 40 watts, but the newer more energy-efficient T8 tubes only use 32w, yet they produce the same light or actually a bit more as they are better quality.  The way a tube or bulb is manufactured determines the light output, both the intensity and the spectrum, and both are important.
 
You have LED lighting, and my experience with this is zero, but other members will likely be able to offer help with this.  But first we will need to know the output of your present light.  There will probably be brighter lighting in LED available for your tank, and this may or may not involve CO2 issues.  To be honest, for a 10 gallon tank, I would not mess with diffused CO2.  This is entering into another realm where water conditions will be affected, and most aquarists don't find it beneficial in so small a tank.
 
I have had T8 fluorescent tubes over a 10 gallon, and my present 10 gallon has two CFL 10w daylight bulbs.  Both of these gave me good plant growth without adding CO2.  I would expect there is a LED fixture available that is comparable.
 
It would also help if you indicate the plants you are thinking of; you have quite a choice with just the moderate light and no CO2.
 
Byron.

I've been trying to find the wattage of these lights since I got them,and I can't seem to find it.but I already know that they are very low quality.Despite the fact that they are LED, I've got a lot of new growth on the rhizome just after about 2 weeks of getting it,and some on the tips of the bigger plants,so I guess I did something right there. I would like to switch out these lights to something much stronger. I heard that dome lights do pretty good with a glass canopy, and I'm willing to do that if I can't find a light to fit my 10gal.
As for the plants I was thinking of are
Amazon Sword
Dwarf hairgrass
ludwigia glandulosa
and maybe some Java moss
Possibly more in the future

Amazon sword is moderate light, but it will outgrow a 10g in short order.  I would suggest either of the two chain species of sword, Helanthium tenellum is the smaller and H. bolivianus is a bit larger [names may vary, this whole genus has undergone reclassification] but both these are "chain sword plants" that send out runners and proliferate rapidly.  The larger would easily reach close to the surface in a 10g.
 
Java Moss is low light, so with floating plants it will be happy.  Ludwigia should work OK with moderate lighting in a 10g, though being a stem plant it will grow fairly quickly and require regular trimming/pruning.
 
The dwarf hairgrass is hard to call.  This plant needs stronger light and CO2 does benefit, but in larger (= deeper) tanks.  Others have said they have good luck with this without CO2, and in a 10g I would think it might be fine.
 
So putting all this together...I would not go overboard on lighting.  The response of the plants you now have will be a good indicator.  Increasing the light too much in so small a space is bound to cause real algae issues.  And CO2 I would not mess with in a 10g regardless.
 
Byron.
I see. Maybe when I get more experience with the 10g and beginner plants I'll get a bigger tank that could hold a wider range of plants. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

 

[Byron]

You can still have a nice planted tank.  Here's a photo of my 10g at various stages over several years.  I've used this tank for some experiments, which is why it has changed a bit.  But it shows what is possible with moderate light and just Flourish Comprehensive Supplement added once a week after the water change.
 
Byron.

 

[Jason1039]

You can still have a nice planted tank.  Here's a photo of my 10g at various stages over several years.  I've used this tank for some experiments, which is why it has changed a bit.  But it shows what is possible with moderate light and just Flourish Comprehensive Supplement added once a week after the water change.
 
Byron.

In this particular tank did you use any form of co2 or any special substrate?

 

[Byron]

 

You can still have a nice planted tank.  Here's a photo of my 10g at various stages over several years.  I've used this tank for some experiments, which is why it has changed a bit.  But it shows what is possible with moderate light and just Flourish Comprehensive Supplement added once a week after the water change.
 
Byron.

In this particular tank did you use any form of co2 or any special substrate?
 

 
No.  The substrate is play sand.  I have never added CO2, it occurs naturally, and you just have to balance the light accordingly.