Using dead shrubs for landscaping

[LostBear]

On the cruelty issue, some view aquariums in general is cruel.The industrial breeding of fish may be consider to be cruel. Breeding fish to be food for other fish can be quite cruel, IMHO. In college I was a part time manager of a fish store, the customers loved when we feed the salt water trigger fish. These guys would just rip goldfish to shreds. I would never keep any fish which required live food.

I personally dislike the bettas in a cup you see at some many fish stores.

So where do we draw the line on the cruelty issue?

I agree that there is much in the fish industry which is cruel - one of the reasons I don't keep otocinclus for instance, is that many of them are wild caught and suffer dreadfully during transport and sale - and I totally agree with you re: bettas in cups.

However I feel that if you take responsibility for the life of an animal/ bird/ fish - whatever, then it is up to you to provide them with the best conditions and the kindest treatment possible, and that means not deliberately putting them into a situation which could cause pain or distress. I know that many people cycle their tanks by using cheap,"expendable" fish, because it's quicker (and that includes some of the fish keepers on here. That, to me, is cruel - even if the fish don't die they often suffer dreadfully until the tank parameters are properly settled.

These are just my opinions - and like you I would never live feed anything bigger than a daphnia. It is a hard line to draw - there are many people who would argue that keeping any animal for any reason is a form of slavery nd is therefore unacceptable

I don't go that far, but I don't think we should deliberately put a sentient creature into a situation which may cause them harm or distress. (Not going to fall out over it though, I hope!)

 

[LostBear]

Just to be clear, I am not passing judgment on anyone concerning keeping fish, that is not my place to do so.

I try not to either - but sometimes people aren't aware that what they are doing may be upsetting for their fish, just because it is such widely accepted practise.

(I also admit that I am hypocritical, because I eat meat and I know the industry is horribly cruel.)

 

[LostBear]

Fish in tanks are only animal cruelty, if the fish is not properly cared for, and if it’s basic needs are not met.

If you keep an Arowana in a 29g tank, that is cruelty. If you keep a betta in a .5g tank, that is animal cruelty.

All my fish are very well cared for - in groups if needed, clean water, quality food, etc.

Some fish (like Oscars) need live food as part of a healthy diet.

Agreed Phoenix - they wouldn't be the fish for me!

 

[madmark285]

I know that many people cycle their tanks by using cheap,"expendable" fish, because it's quicker (and that includes some of the fish keepers on here.

I thought fishless cycling of your tank was faster, no need to wait for organic material to breakdown into ammonia. But using fish will seed your tank with bacteria ,maybe that's a factor. Another advantage, you can build up larger colonies of bacteria using ammonia in a bottle, just add larger doses. This will allow you to initially stock your tank with more fish once your tank has cycled. And it may be cheaper, Dr. Tim's ammonia cost ~$3.5/bottle. There is also Dr. Tim's Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria for cycling your tank.

Morally, I am ok with using a few Tiger Barbs as " guinea pig". I will do everything I can to a create non-toxic environment. This is far different from using fish to cycle a tank, you know the environment will become toxic with ammonia/nitrite spikes. FYI, still trying to identify the shrubs...

 

[madmark285]

If the tanks are all connected to the same filter, ......Does anyone have such a set up Who could comment?

Just another follow up, one issue with a common filter system, the tanks are all the same temperature. This may be a problem for keeping Blue Rams in one of the 20 gallon tanks, they like warm water.