Used Clove Oil For The First Time Last Night

[Dorkhedeos]

damn, imagine spending like 20 bucks to get a cardinal killed they will probably just stick it in some clove oil

 

[blitztidus]

I cant believe that someone would kill their fish with boiling water,that is the worst method thats been mentioned, its brutal and cruel.

Absolutely not, if the water is boiling hot and it goes straight on there head, they die within a matter of 2 seconds tops for me, but this topic makes me want to cry. I have only done it 4 times in the past 6 years.

 

[steelhealr]

Here is the link to the other euthanasia post with my thoughts on why cold immersion is better than oil of cloves. The method must be rapid and I don't agree with putting them in the freezer for a slow freeze method:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=130845

I disagree with the use of boiling water. The bottom line here is that the average aquarist is not going to have access to the most humane way of euthanizing a fish short of taking it to a vet that specializes in ichthyology. Each person must make their own personal choice as to which they believe is the most humane. Methods that I believe are inhumane, IMO, are:

• flushing the fish down the toilet
• any method that requires a prolonged period of time out of water prior to death (stressful)
• boiling

Again, JMO and how I choose to treat my fish. SH

 

[Nevergone815]

i use the boiling water also as i can't find a store that caries plain clove oil or anything that has it. i don't want to bash my fish in the head as i just couldn't do it.

the fish die very quickly and it seems ike the best way tp do it. like blitztidus says it takes 2 seconds TOPS for them to die. it is the fastest and most effective way i can do. also as for the clove oil, i wouldn't want to use it because i have heard that it just puts them into a deep sleep and ofeten doesn't kill them. maybe those people were just doing it wrong???

 

[Captain Retardo]

(I posted this in another thread, but I think it might help in this one too)

These are from Tropical Fishlopaedia: A Complete Guide to Fish Care By: Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess (PhD) Copyright: 2000:

1. ACCEPTABLE METHODS OF EUTHANASIA

-Anasesthetic overdose. This may require a visit to the vet in countries where the necessary chemicals are available only on prescription. Phone the vet first-he may be willing to supply the chemical for home use (minimises stress for the fish by avoiding a journey to the vet), but may insist on performing the task himself. In this case, the aquarist must decide whether to take the fish to the vet or arrange a home visit. This method of euthanasia is suitable for any size of fish, and is particularly suitable where numbers are involved, e.g. where a brood is to be culled (see also below). For suitable anaesthetics and dosages, see Chapter 27.

-Concussion, with destruction of the brain. The fish should be netted and wrapped in a cloth (for grip) with its head exposed. The head is then hit forcefully against a hard object (doorstep, edge of table, large rock). Alternatively, a hard object (rock, hammer) can be brought down on the head of the fish. Fishing (angling) shops stock a type of club, known as a 'priest', used for despatching salmon, trout, etc, which is ideal for killing larger fish. Unless the head has been completely cu\rushed during the operation, then the brain should subsequently be pierced, via the top of the head, with a sharp instrument (e.g. a knife or scissors), to ensure the fish is dead and not just stunned.

-Decapitation, with destruction of the brain. If the fish is small and elongate, its head can be severed using a sharp knife or scissors. This method of euthanasia is unsuitable for larger or deep-bodied fish as the operation may take some time and cause acute suffering. The fish should b held in a cloth, as for concussion, and, because the brain may remain conscious for a while after decapitation, the brain should be pierced and destroyed, as for concussion, above.

-Predation. It is sometimes necessary to dispose of genetically deformed or stunted fry, or surplus number, by culling. (It is normally impracticable for the amateur to rear and find homes for the hundreds of thousands of fry produced by some fish.) it is generally regarded as humane to feed such fry to a piscivore (this is the normal and natural fate of most fry in the wild) with the following provisos:
- The fry muste be healthey (apart from any genetic problems).
- The size of the predator(s) must be such that each fish is eaten quickly.
- The numbers of fry fed at any one time should be such that they are all eaten quickly, and none left to share the predator's tank, in terror, until it is hungry again.
Note: in some countries it may be illegal to feed any live fish to another fish or other animals.


2. UNACCEPTABLE METHODS OF EUTHANASIA

The following methods of euthanasia cause suffering, and are totally unacceptable:


-Flushing a live fish down the lavatory or sink waste disposal unit (see also Disposal of dead fish, Chapter 26)

-Breaking the neck without subsequent destruction of the brain; the fish may remain alive for some time, and still be conscious when its 'corpse' is disposed of.

-Suffocation, by removal of water.

-Dropping a live fish into boiling or iced water.

-Slow chilling (with or without water). (This method is often suggested in aquarium literature, on the basis that the metabolism slows and the fish slips away.) However, it is now thought that the physiological processes involved are painful and the suffering considerable.)



Diseased fish, alive or dead, should never be fed to other fish, as this may transmit infection. Corpses should be disposed of safely and responsibly as discussed in Chapter 26.

This is an exact recreation of what the book says, so some of the stuff like saying to refer to Chapter 26, should be ignored.

 

[Synirr]

The Norwegian study, even while saying it’s unlikely that crustaceans feel pain, also cautioned that more research is needed because there is a scarcity of scientific knowledge on the subject.

....be careful about quoting studies until you read what they based their results on. SH

I would like to point out that it is impossible to scientifically prove a negative beyond any shadow of doubt. It is literally impossible to prove that anything doesn't feel pain without asking it, and while there is a lack of scientific knowledge, that study is the best information we have on the subject to date. Gentle souls may choose to err on the side of caution, which is absolutely a good idea at times, but if I were a betting (wo)man, I'd put my money on crustaceans not feeling pain.

 

[silver tipped]

Hi,

I read this topic as I have often wondered about euthanizing my fish should they become very ill.

I have been lucky in that my fish have died from naturally causes and even then I put them in a small jar with tank water in just to make sure they are dead. My hubby thinks i'm nuts.

Anyway I couldn't bash them, flush them or do anything that might cause extra pain. I wouldn't bash my dog on the head so I won't my fish.

I was told that if you place the fish in a small container and add a little clove oil it kind of knocks them out, you then add more to finish the job.

I guess everyone has there own way of dealing with this subject and what works for one won't work for everybody.

 

[steelhealr]

Well, short of beating this thread to death, I'll cut out with the final summary thoughts:

-anyone here who swears by any ONE method is doing so based on unpublished data and communication between aquarists(including me and why I choose dramatic and rapid cold immersion which I base on extrapolated medical experience (you can PM me if you want more of my reasons why I choose this method )

-there have been no studies to date that publish data on methods of euthanasia on fish, rapidity of onset of death, or on which has the least level of pain during a particular method

-oil of cloves has not been studied to cause instant death. It is NOT accepted by the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia as a humane method of death. It is predominantly a TOPICAL anesthetic, does not dissolve well in water and with inadequate penetration, MAY NOT cause unconsciousness. If indeed that is true, the fish is conscious and paralyzed, an extremely frightening sensation for any living animal (unable to enact the fight or flight reflex)

-the most humane method of fish euthanasia is generally available to vets; one could call their local vet if they TRULY want a humane method of euthanasia. They have other medications/anesthetics that are more acceptable than what we've listed here on our forum

-for those who cannot or will not bring a fish to a vet, one most choose a method of euthanasia that they are comfortable with and that they believe will give them peace of mind or comfort that they performed an act of dignity for the fish

SH

 

[lmcarlton]

Ok, I would rather treat my fish first, but when it comes to having tried everything and you are just not winning the battle I deal with the problem. I understand that some can't hit their fish and that's acceptable. I just find the way I do it simple, fast and efficient. Now I will say this, I do feel differently about my dog then I do my fish because I have more interaction with him and my cat and it's all the time. Fish to me are just a little different. Although I come very attached to my fish to me there is a difference. Before anyone says anything I will say I do realize that there are people that feel about their fish the way I feel about my dog and I honestly have to say that I could not hit my dog over the head to kill him, nor my cat. This is the way I feel.

If I was stuck and if either were very sick or injured and they were going to die and I couldn't get it to the vet to put him out of his misery. I would take care of the problem. Because I know that they are in pain and you can't fix it.

It's so confusing because we can't talk to fish and ask them what things feel like. We have to go by their actions. Everyone has a different method. There are some I agree with and don't agree with.

Lea-Andra

 

[SamUK]

only had to do this once and it was before i found this place.

i used boiling hot water. the fish went in it about 4 seconds after the kettle boiled and i think it went well.


the fish died instantly.


i wouldnt do it if i thought the water would of cooled even a little too much tho.