Usa Aquabid Seller

[LauraFrog]

Just when we think we are getting somewhere, something like this pops up. May I suggest a seller boycott USA/Canada buyers? We need to be sending the message very firmly that tropical fish hobbyists do not appreciate the mutilation of their animals.

(Tattooed gouramis)

http/www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auc...&1224795325

 

[dnn3]

that is terrible i'm from the u.s. and i'm in total agreement with everyone about tatooing fish.it is cruel and just plain wrong.

 

[drobbyb]

That's torture.

 

[jourdy288]

Arghh! Don't boycott us in North America, we're not all evil!! (kidding) but I'm quite disgusted, that fish belongs in a disco, and the disco just doesn't belong!

 

[kribensis12]

Thats terrible. I wonder why no one has bought it yet, maybe because most of the people on aquabid are responsible people who know whats right and what is wrong.

 

[Syphoniera]

I wanted to 'ask seller a question', i.e., why anyone would do such a thing or want to encourage such practices by buying one, but I'm not a member.
Maybe a bunch of people who are signed up would like to flood the question site with queries of the type, one per person?

 

[LauraFrog]

Yeah, that would be great. I can't join AB because I'm under 18. But an email-round of 'why exactly are you promoting animal abuse' would be a good idea.

When I say boycott this seller I mean because he/she only ships to the USA and Canada, would people from those countries just not buy anything. Not boycott people in the USA/canada!! lol

They are selling other fish - quite a lot and some very nice - but I think some people should contact them and say they're boycotting until they stop selling dyed fish. Somebody should also give them the details of the process, but considering the sort of fish (some quite rare) they are selling I seriously doubt that they are unaware of it.

 

[Corleone]

I saw almost the exact same fish just yesterday in Michigan. Wouldn't surprise me if they came from the same source, since the seller is based nearby. What was one of my favorite fish stores had six albino giant gouramis. Two were tattooed this way, two had stripes, and the last two had college letters (A blue M for Michigan and a green S for Michigan State). They also had a tank full of mollies tatooed with orange and black for Halloween and a sign on the door saying "This location does not stock or order physically or genetically modified fish."

Real shame, too, they're a stunning fish normaly, and I've only ever seen one other in a store, and it was full grown and priced at $1250 complete with tank.

 

[Tolak]

It seems to be a common thing, that as businesses grow, their morals shrink.

The person who buys a few angels from a shop is going to have more of an emotional attachment to those fish than I would to any randomly picked few angels that I have sold that shop. Does that mean my morals or emotions towards fish have shrunk? No, I only have so much emotion to spread around, if one small fish out of hundreds dies for me, it is really nothing big, for the aquarist with just a few it is a big thing. So if I accidentally kill an angel siphoning tanks with a large bore hose (it has happened) should I quit breeding & selling? I won't, because I am giving back to the aquatics community, through shops and club related functions, much more than the loss of the occasional fish or two. Is the loss of the fish or two a good thing? No, not at all, but sometimes these sort of things happen.

Such is the case with TFD. If you think all he does is sell on Aquabid you are wrong. He is a regular at many club related events, and while he is a business and does charge a good price for his services, he is also a huge draw and a benefit to clubs. These are the clubs with breeders who sell quality fish to local shops, and through the club help each other in attaining the goal of breeding quality fish. This means better fish in the shops, and for the buyer.

Is tattooing fish a good thing? Certainly not. I'm sure the owner of TFD is not sitting there etching designs into fish himself, he is buying them from elsewhere. This is where any boycott should be aimed, and any e-mails or letters of concern sent. I’m sure any boycott aimed at TFD is not going to make a dent in his business whatsoever. Bringing it to the attention of Aquabid might help.

The owner of TFD is in business to make a profit, it seems once you cross from a non-profit to a profit-making endeavor when dealing with any animals, some morals are compromised. If you look at the end result, the whole picture, instead of the individual situation taken out of the whole you will be better able to make a decision as to whether the situation is good, bad or questionable. Find me any shop where the morals are not compromised somewhere as compared to the average aquarist with a tank or three, or most any member on this site. A distributor, such as TFD is, will be compromised in this respect as well. This being the case, you should boycott all shops, all distributors since they supply the shops, and all breeders, since they supply shops and distributors.

 

[drobbyb]

Tolak makes a very good point. Shop owners stock what sells. You can't fault them for keeping their business alive.

 

[LauraFrog]

Agreed, good point tolak, BUT, these fish are probably being ordered in from Asia where the people who mass produce dyed, tattooed and tailless fish are not going to stop it because some people in the UK/USA/Australia chuck a tanty about it. Over there, those fish sell. If we can STOP them from being sold in the US/UK/AUS, it can't be a bad thing. Less demand for this sort of thing is never bad. I don't know the person selling these fish and maybe I shouldn't have jumped on them, but judging by the rarity and quality of the other fish for sale, I would suggest they definitely know what these fish have been through, and I don't understand why they would still stock them. I mean, I'm with Tolak regarding the accidental death of a few fish in several hundred. But this is not an accidental death, it is deliberate animal abuse and the promotion of it by people who understand that it is cruel. I don't think he should be stocking tattooed fish. Isn't that sending the message that it's okay when an experienced fishkeeper with a major business condones it?

 

[dnn3]

unforunately it's as simple as supply and demand.as much as most of us know it's wrong their are people out there who think tatooed fish are cute and they don't care if it is cruel and it shortens their life spans.just as long as it makes their kids happy.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Yeah, that would be great. I can't join AB because I'm under 18. But an email-round of 'why exactly are you promoting animal abuse' would be a good idea.

When I say boycott this seller I mean because he/she only ships to the USA and Canada, would people from those countries just not buy anything. Not boycott people in the USA/canada!! lol

They are selling other fish - quite a lot and some very nice - but I think some people should contact them and say they're boycotting until they stop selling dyed fish. Somebody should also give them the details of the process, but considering the sort of fish (some quite rare) they are selling I seriously doubt that they are unaware of it.

If this user is selling other fish they are probably just importing fish for cheapest wholesale price (or something similar) and reselling at recommended retail price.

Good luck trying to change his mind, because it probably won't happen. This is not the first time something like this has happened...

 

[LauraFrog]

You're both right, this happens all the time, and most of the end buyers don't know that what they're getting is an animal that has been through hell and will have a shortened lifespan and much reduced quality of life because of it. That's why I'm particularly annoyed about this episode because somebody with this person's level of experience in the trade must surely know what the fish go through AND that they are essentially cheating the buyers, who are not warned that these fish's colours will not last and that the fish may only live a few months because of the effects of the dye. If I see people my age with no clue about fish selling dyed fish in a chain store, I don't get anywhere near this worked up about it, because that's different. They don't know that the fish have suffered and they're just selling what was provided for them to sell by somebody higher up the chain. But when I see a fish specialist selling tattooed fish, THEN I get upset about it.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

You're both right, this happens all the time, and most of the end buyers don't know that what they're getting is an animal that has been through hell and will have a shortened lifespan and much reduced quality of life because of it. That's why I'm particularly annoyed about this episode because somebody with this person's level of experience in the trade must surely know what the fish go through AND that they are essentially cheating the buyers, who are not warned that these fish's colours will not last and that the fish may only live a few months because of the effects of the dye. If I see people my age with no clue about fish selling dyed fish in a chain store, I don't get anywhere near this worked up about it, because that's different. They don't know that the fish have suffered and they're just selling what was provided for them to sell by somebody higher up the chain. But when I see a fish specialist selling tattooed fish, THEN I get upset about it.

A lot of people that are higher up in the chain and selling these fish probably don't care all that much, or can't afford to warn people about the problems of the fish being dyed, people need money.

I have bee thinking... Just here me out for a second

Dyed fish aren't outlawed, and chances are will probably never be (I hate to say it.) So for now, instead of boycotting it, how about embrace it. I mean, all of us advanced fish keepers not buying dyed fish could be worse to an extent. Either they are going to sit and die in a little crowded tank in the LFS, or go to someone who doesn't know what dyed fish are, and chances are don't know much else about the hobby. Isn't fish keeping about passion, empathy and love for fish (and other animals.) I mean I know that they come with some health concerns and such, but the still diserve a good life, it's not they're fault they're dyed.


On another similar note, I know that dyed fish are supply and demand but there will always be ignorant people to demand them, so would taking one home cause a big problem??