Please see my thread in the tropical fish emergency section...
http
/www.fishforums.net/content/Tropical...nt-Help-Needed/
http
/www.fishforums.net/content/Tropical...nt-Help-Needed/Urgent Help Needed
- Thread starter Arimus
- Start date
@ombomb
Fish Gatherer
How long have you had the tank, seems to be still cycling, either that or something may have died and hasn't been removed.
You need to get cracking on a water change and a big one.
Do you have anywhere you can move livestock to till you have this under control.
SG is low, is this a sudden change?
Temp is low, again sudden change?
pH a little on the high side...
Temp has been this temp for a week, SG has dropped - didn't notice until I did the water test.
Just done a 15l water change - going to keep an eye on the tank for a while longer.
Removed every bit of rock to see whether any thing had died and nothing had - both crabs who I couldn't see are fine, the two shrimp are bit subdued as well but the second I touch them or near them and they're off...
What I'm wondering is one of the following
a) Something caused the tank to recycle,
B) The amount of DD aquascaping putty used in a small tank has caused a toxic build up of something or other,
c) The tetra aquarium wipes which it says are safe for internal/external use caused something to happen...
I think c is abit far fetched, but a and b are likely...
(I'm trying to think given this has just happened in the last two - three hours of possible causes - the fish this morning where happy as fish swimming around as normal - its only really since the rescaping things have gone wrong)
[From the other thread - got a bit confused earlier
]
The nitrite has just come back up today - was down to 0 (ditto ammonia).
Having said that everyone looked fine since being added (the clown and damsel have been resident for a week, the scooter since Friday last week and the rainbow this weekend)...
Just done a 15l water change - going to keep an eye on the tank for a while longer.
Removed every bit of rock to see whether any thing had died and nothing had - both crabs who I couldn't see are fine, the two shrimp are bit subdued as well but the second I touch them or near them and they're off...
What I'm wondering is one of the following
a) Something caused the tank to recycle,
B) The amount of DD aquascaping putty used in a small tank has caused a toxic build up of something or other,
c) The tetra aquarium wipes which it says are safe for internal/external use caused something to happen...
I think c is abit far fetched, but a and b are likely...
(I'm trying to think given this has just happened in the last two - three hours of possible causes - the fish this morning where happy as fish swimming around as normal - its only really since the rescaping things have gone wrong)
[From the other thread - got a bit confused earlier
]The nitrite has just come back up today - was down to 0 (ditto ammonia).
Having said that everyone looked fine since being added (the clown and damsel have been resident for a week, the scooter since Friday last week and the rainbow this weekend)...
I was wondering how the corals are doing as the whole story makes absolutely no sense.
If the fish look very stressed the corals should do so as well.
I'm not advocating bad water parameters but 0.5 ppm for Ammonia and Nitrate should first stress your corals, then the shrimp, and at least the fish. Overall the damsel would probably need the thenfold figures to show any reaction. (Never tried it, I repeat only hearsaying.)
As it is not the usual setup, that is fish first and then invertebrates, AND as the fish has been added very quickly to a relative small tank, my guess is that the nitrofying bacteria have been small in numbers and couldn't reproduce that fast as fish have been added. Those bacteria grow even slow in freshwater with their preferred ph figures of 7.3 and 7.6 resp (or around that) and much slower in saltwater.
If you haven't overfed the corals then the bioload must have been very small before.
Regarding the salinity it depends what instruments you used to measure it. You can easily have got a misreading.
Also want to add that water test kits can show strange values. When I recently got a problem with overfeeding in my nano reef tank normally with Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate all zero I measured with the Dry-tab test kits I usually use for the nano reef those figures: 0.25 / 015 / 30 ppm.
Just to confirm these figures I tested the saltwater with the API test kit I use normally for the brackish tank. This API test kit is for salt and freshwater and showed in the nano reef all zero for all, that is Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate. I measured in the brackish also figures diiferent from zero with that API test but presumably it is less sensitive with all three tests.
My guess is that your high figures for Ammonia and Nitrite result from the fish you added ptobably too fast to your tank.
If you corals are fine and the fish look depressed I would guess that their stress results from settling in or they may have got problems in with themselves.
If the fish look very stressed the corals should do so as well.
I'm not advocating bad water parameters but 0.5 ppm for Ammonia and Nitrate should first stress your corals, then the shrimp, and at least the fish. Overall the damsel would probably need the thenfold figures to show any reaction. (Never tried it, I repeat only hearsaying.)
As it is not the usual setup, that is fish first and then invertebrates, AND as the fish has been added very quickly to a relative small tank, my guess is that the nitrofying bacteria have been small in numbers and couldn't reproduce that fast as fish have been added. Those bacteria grow even slow in freshwater with their preferred ph figures of 7.3 and 7.6 resp (or around that) and much slower in saltwater.
If you haven't overfed the corals then the bioload must have been very small before.
Regarding the salinity it depends what instruments you used to measure it. You can easily have got a misreading.
Also want to add that water test kits can show strange values. When I recently got a problem with overfeeding in my nano reef tank normally with Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate all zero I measured with the Dry-tab test kits I usually use for the nano reef those figures: 0.25 / 015 / 30 ppm.
Just to confirm these figures I tested the saltwater with the API test kit I use normally for the brackish tank. This API test kit is for salt and freshwater and showed in the nano reef all zero for all, that is Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate. I measured in the brackish also figures diiferent from zero with that API test but presumably it is less sensitive with all three tests.
My guess is that your high figures for Ammonia and Nitrite result from the fish you added ptobably too fast to your tank.
If you corals are fine and the fish look depressed I would guess that their stress results from settling in or they may have got problems in with themselves.
Right, most of the corals are fine - one is a bit stressed but its been like since we had it - it keeps putting its polyps out then withdrawing them - though looking at it now its alot more 'open' than it has been.
All the fish are doing better today - going to do a daily 10l water change (its only 12 US gallons so 45l so its about 22% - though with the volume of live rock (5kg) I'd imagine nearer a 25% of actual water volume change).
The thing that puzzles me is that it was a very sudden change to the fish... I've seen problems with ammonia before (Freshwater) and while noticeable it wasn't anywhere near as dramatic a change in behaviour.
I do wonder if the hammerhead coral I introduced (tis but a very small frag - hoping it will grow larger as we're looking at getting a 'proper' marine tank) had something on it - that was the only major change before the event other than the rescaping.
All the fish are doing better today - going to do a daily 10l water change (its only 12 US gallons so 45l so its about 22% - though with the volume of live rock (5kg) I'd imagine nearer a 25% of actual water volume change).
The thing that puzzles me is that it was a very sudden change to the fish... I've seen problems with ammonia before (Freshwater) and while noticeable it wasn't anywhere near as dramatic a change in behaviour.
I do wonder if the hammerhead coral I introduced (tis but a very small frag - hoping it will grow larger as we're looking at getting a 'proper' marine tank) had something on it - that was the only major change before the event other than the rescaping.
jeasko
Fishaholic
How soon were all the fish and coral added? was it over a small amount of time, as I would have to agree its likely that there was a sudden change in the bio loading which has caused he water paramters to change, as for how quick the fish were affected, just imagin how quick we are affected when we breath something that is very bad for us!
Well everyone now seems to be happier
Just dug out the stats on the tank from the last 10 days since having it... the spike on ammonia was 5 days ago, nitrite 4 days ago, then to 0 until the problem occured.
Just retested today (prior to water change) and the ammonia is going up still - I'm wondering if I had a hitchhiker on the live rock which has died (none of the introduced fish/invert's have died - all accounted for and all fine)...
Just dug out the stats on the tank from the last 10 days since having it... the spike on ammonia was 5 days ago, nitrite 4 days ago, then to 0 until the problem occured.
Just retested today (prior to water change) and the ammonia is going up still - I'm wondering if I had a hitchhiker on the live rock which has died (none of the introduced fish/invert's have died - all accounted for and all fine)...
Despite doing repeated water changes and driving our local LFS to distration with buying RO all the livestock bar the hermit crabs has died.
Going to drain the tank down later and restart it - should I do anything to clean up the live rock?
Try and at least keep the LR in saltwater Arimus, there's prolly still life on it
I am - and the hermits are still alive and kicking (well more like clinging)
One of the corals has survived and is the healthiest I've ever seen it (all polyps extended etc)
The hammerhead coral is thriving as well.
Mushroom polyp coral is also thriving - actually seem to have more polyps on it since this morning.
The leather is ok.
I do wonder if the Xenia pulse coral which for a few days I thought looked 'wrong' was dying and releasing ammonia - since I took the dead fish and dead xenia out this morning things seem to have perked up.
One of the corals has survived and is the healthiest I've ever seen it (all polyps extended etc)
The hammerhead coral is thriving as well.
Mushroom polyp coral is also thriving - actually seem to have more polyps on it since this morning.
The leather is ok.
I do wonder if the Xenia pulse coral which for a few days I thought looked 'wrong' was dying and releasing ammonia - since I took the dead fish and dead xenia out this morning things seem to have perked up.
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