Upgrading Tank - Help

[Iainang]

Hi guys, right, here is my scenario.

I currently have a 60l Biorb, just bought a Juwel 125, im asking the best way to move the fish over without harming them, do i start from scrach, cycle my Juwel? Or do i transfer water, plants (plastic), stones etc from my Biorb to my Juwel?

They are not in the same location, so i have time if needed to run both tanks and transfer fish when ready.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[willowstwin]

I'm not familiar with the biorb filtration system, but, if you can put the filter media from the biorb into your new filter, then the fish will be fine as the filter will be cycled for them.

BUT, before adding anymore fish, keep an eye on your water stats. Then add only a couple of new fish at a time (like fish-in cycling), so not to overload your filter.

 

[Essjay]

The main biofilter of a biorb is the granular substrate. But I have no idea how much of it there is. You don't want to put it all into a mesh bag only to find there is no room for anything else in the Juwels' filter!
One thing you could do is to remove some of the biorb's substrate, put it in a mesh bag in the built-in filter. The water flow goes down through the media, so put the bag at the top under the white pad instead of the black sponge (which you don't actually need). Then do a fishless cycle. The biorb substrate should speed up the cycle.

 

[Iainang]

The main biofilter of a biorb is the granular substrate. But I have no idea how much of it there is. You don't want to put it all into a mesh bag only to find there is no room for anything else in the Juwels' filter!
One thing you could do is to remove some of the biorb's substrate, put it in a mesh bag in the built-in filter. The water flow goes down through the media, so put the bag at the top under the white pad instead of the black sponge (which you don't actually need). Then do a fishless cycle. The biorb substrate should speed up the cycle.

Hi, thanks for this, so far what i have done is put new substrate in, along with some rocks/stones and plastic plants from my Biorb, would an option be, to place the sponge from my Biorb in place of the Black sponge in Juwel?

That was i can put a new filter in biorb, and also have the new tank cycled, would that work?

Apologies for the questions, just want to make sure i dont harm my fish during the transfer.

 

[Essjay]

I've never had a biorb, but according to their website,
"As water passes through the rocks at the bottom good bacteria remove the toxic elements of fish waste. The physical waste and debris are then drawn into and trapped in the filter cartridge where excess pollutants are also absorbed before the water passes out back into the aquarium. Unlike traditional filters the biOrb filter cartridge can be completely removed or cleaned without affecting the good bacteria which always stay in the aquarium."

So the rocks on the bottom are the main home for the bacteria, but no doubt the cartridge will house some as well. What exactly is in the cartridge, is it the sponge you mention?

If it possible to make it all fit in the Juwel's filter, you could move the filter cartridge and the rocks into the filter and move the fish at the same time. But not having had a biorb, I have no idea just how much space the rocks would take up. You'd need to be able to fit all the rocks and the cartridge in the Juwel filter and still leave room for at least a couple of the Juwel sponges. If the biorb media (all of it) won't fit, you'll have to use some of the media to seed a fishless cycle. You can remove a third of it, this will still leave enough behind for the fish in the biorb.

Any rocks/stones that are not part of the biorb's filtration, and the plants will contribute virtually no bacteria to the new tank. And as you say you've alrady transfered them, unless you put a spource of ammonia in the tank (bottled ammonia or fish) any of the few bacteria will die of starvation after a few days.

Considering the great difference between the two tanks' filters, it might just be easier to use some of the biorb's filter media to kick start a fishless cycle. Doing it this way won't take nealry as long as doing a fishless cycle without amy mature media.

 

[Iainang]

I've never had a biorb, but according to their website,
"As water passes through the rocks at the bottom good bacteria remove the toxic elements of fish waste. The physical waste and debris are then drawn into and trapped in the filter cartridge where excess pollutants are also absorbed before the water passes out back into the aquarium. Unlike traditional filters the biOrb filter cartridge can be completely removed or cleaned without affecting the good bacteria which always stay in the aquarium."

So the rocks on the bottom are the main home for the bacteria, but no doubt the cartridge will house some as well. What exactly is in the cartridge, is it the sponge you mention?

If it possible to make it all fit in the Juwel's filter, you could move the filter cartridge and the rocks into the filter and move the fish at the same time. But not having had a biorb, I have no idea just how much space the rocks would take up. You'd need to be able to fit all the rocks and the cartridge in the Juwel filter and still leave room for at least a couple of the Juwel sponges. If the biorb media (all of it) won't fit, you'll have to use some of the media to seed a fishless cycle. You can remove a third of it, this will still leave enough behind for the fish in the biorb.

Any rocks/stones that are not part of the biorb's filtration, and the plants will contribute virtually no bacteria to the new tank. And as you say you've alrady transfered them, unless you put a spource of ammonia in the tank (bottled ammonia or fish) any of the few bacteria will die of starvation after a few days.

Considering the great difference between the two tanks' filters, it might just be easier to use some of the biorb's filter media to kick start a fishless cycle. Doing it this way won't take nealry as long as doing a fishless cycle without amy mature media.

Ok, thanks for your reply.

The birob filter just unsrews and you are left with a circular contaner with the sponge, and little black and white stones, would i place this in the Juwel filter? Just want to make sure i do everything right.

 

[Essjay]

The biorb filter is in 2 parts. One is the box you describe and the other, bigger part is the rocks on the bottom of the biorb.

Those rocks are the biological media, the main home for the filter bacteria.
The black and white stones - black is carbon, white is zeolite. The sponge is to catch any bits floating in the water. The black & white stones and the sponge will have some bacteria but not nearly as much as the rocks, simply because the surface area of the rocks is so big, plenty of surface for the bacteria to grow on.


Because the carbon, zeolite and sponge in the box are only part of the biorb's filtration system, they won't hold enough bacteria for all the fish currently in the biorb if you use just that in the Juwel filter. To be able to transfer all the fish over, you would have to put all the rocks in the Juwel filter as well as the box, but I don't think there would be enough room for everything.

If you remove the box from the biorb, there should be enough bacteria left in the rocks to keep the fish in the biorb for now, though you will need to keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels till you know the rocks alone are coping - do water changes to remove any ammonia and/or nitrite you might see till the bacteria have multiplied enough to replace the ones in the box.

Once you take the box out of the biorb, put it in the Juwel filter in place of the black sponge. Add ammonia and follow the instructions for fishless cycling.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/
You will need to start adding ammonia as soon as possible after putting the box in the Juwel filter or the bacteria will starve.
Fishless cycling without the box could take anything from four weeks to a few months, but putting the biorb's box in the Juwel filter will give you a head start so the cycle won't take nearly so long.



The reason I said to put the box in the Juwel filter in place of the black carbon sponge is that you don't actually need to use carbon on a routine basis. Keep the black sponge in the cupboard in case you need it at some point to remove medication from the water after treating sick fish.
And don't change the sponges etc like the manual tells you. Wash sponges in the water you take out during a water chnage until they literally fall apart or won't go back to shape after washing. If the filter has cirax, swish that in old tank water and only replace it when the pieces start to distintegrate.
Once the cycle has finished, you will be able to move the biorb fish over.