Upgrading Co2

[_Cal_]

This is my existing co2 system here. I want to upgrade, but dont really know how to set up a new system. Should I upgrade? Or should I stay with the existing system? I want something in the range of say 100-150 dollars, a little more wont matter.

 

[robgurr]

actually i'm in the process of doing the exact same thing...i have that setup you have and i'm pretty sure its not enough. I'm looking into a co2 cylinder, that would be my #1 choice personally. I think its in your price rang too. I don't know where to get them right now but i'll keep you posted.

 

[_Cal_]

If you could it would be a lot of help thanks.

 

[Jen]

I got my cylender and regulator at a welding shop. By far the cheapest for the cylender when I was looking. They matched the price of the regulator from the home brewing store that I looked at first.

I get my tank filled at a place that re-fills fire extinguishers, and when I was there for the first time I noticed that they sold tanks as well, for way cheaper than I got.

I suggest looking at those kind of places... welding shops, wine and beer brewing supply shops and fire extinguisher refill stations.

robgurr... where abouts in Canada are you? If you are near me I can give you some names.


My 5lb tank was $85, and the regulator was $115. At the refill station I'm pretty sure the 5lb tank was $65 or something.

 

[@ombomb]

Well you can buy the regulators on ebay for next to nothing, low enough for me to consider buying one any paying the delivery to the UK.

 

[Discomafia]

What about the solenoid, control valve and bubble counter? Aren't they required as well, or are they optional? I've seen some good priced regulators on ebay recently which got me thinking. Is that, a CO2 bottle, a method to diffuse the CO2, and some tubing all I'll need?

What do I need to know about regulators? This article says that the best is a two-stage regulator designed for use on welding gas cylinders. So does that mean a regulator used for brewing drinks or making soda isn't suitable?

 

[Jen]

I don't use a solenoid, but you can. You do need the bubble counter, if you started with the Nutrafin unit, use that ladder. And there is a control valve on the regulator, but I needed to add one on the line (the kind used with an air pump) just because I can't get the flow slow enough. I tried using a check valve on the line as well, but it would always jam and wouldn't let gas through, so I took it out. The guy at the store I fill the tank at told me with this kind of a cylinder there is 800 pounds of back pressure, so there is absolutely no chance of water getting in the tank.

You need a regulator with 2 dials on it. One tells you the tank pressure so you can tell when it's getting close to empty. The other tells you the pressure of the going into the tank. The second dail needs to show a pretty low psi... Mine goes to 100, but I have to keep the pressure around 30psi so all the connections stay together. It just makes it easier to control the pressure.


Here's my tank and regulator

 

[Discomafia]

Thanks for the reply.

"But I have to keep the pressure around 30psi so all the connections stay together."
What does that mean?

I still want to know if I can use a regulator used for brewing drinks. Good to know about the 800 pounds of back pressure, at least I know I won't have to get a check valve. Read that you don't want water to get into the regulator (water + CO2 = carbonic acid which is mildly corrosive)... Would you have to stop using the regulator if that happens?

What happens when the tank is empty? How will I know there's no more CO2 left?

Is this a good article to get some info on the topic on?

http/www.hallman.org/plant/booth1.html

Does anyone have any bookmarked pages about pressurized CO2?

 

[_Cal_]

Thanks for the replys, how long does the co2 tank last?

 

[Jen]

That did sound a bit confusing didn't it? Basically what I was getting at was that if I increase the pressure to the tank above 30psi, the hose will come off where I have it attached to the airline adjuster. That make sence?

If the regulator has 2 dials on is, and has a fine control knob, then yes. You need to make sure though that the output dial to you tank is capable of having a low psi on it. With regulators with dials that go up to 500psi or more it will be very difficult to control low psi's.

You will know when the cylinder is getting low when the dial telling you the pressure for it will drop from 800psi. When there are no more bubbles in your bubble counther, the cylinder is empty and you need to re fill it. When it is empty, you need to refill as soon as possible, because the ph will hike back up. I don't like to leave it for more than a day. I generally go out as soon as I see that it's empty. If you don't have a car, or rely on someone to get you places, this could be tricky. Also, check at the place you buy the tank as to how they re fill them. Some places send them out for filling and could take up to a week to get back to you.

It's impossible to say how long a tank will last. It all depends on the size of your aquarium, the size of your co2 tank, if you turn it off at night/use a solenoid, and what pressure you have it at. I have a 5 pound tank, and people here were telling me that it should last me like 6 months. I have been getting about a month and a half on mine.

 

[_Cal_]

That is a lot of money, I think Im going to get the red sea co2 bio-generator, think it will good or no?

 

[Discomafia]

That did sound a bit confusing didn't it? Basically what I was getting at was that if I increase the pressure to the tank above 30psi, the hose will come off where I have it attached to the airline adjuster. That make sence?

If the regulator has 2 dials on is, and has a fine control knob, then yes. You need to make sure though that the output dial to you tank is capable of having a low psi on it. With regulators with dials that go up to 500psi or more it will be very difficult to control low psi's.

You will know when the cylinder is getting low when the dial telling you the pressure for it will drop from 800psi. When there are no more bubbles in your bubble counther, the cylinder is empty and you need to re fill it. When it is empty, you need to refill as soon as possible, because the ph will hike back up. I don't like to leave it for more than a day. I generally go out as soon as I see that it's empty. If you don't have a car, or rely on someone to get you places, this could be tricky. Also, check at the place you buy the tank as to how they re fill them. Some places send them out for filling and could take up to a week to get back to you.

It's impossible to say how long a tank will last. It all depends on the size of your aquarium, the size of your co2 tank, if you turn it off at night/use a solenoid, and what pressure you have it at. I have a 5 pound tank, and people here were telling me that it should last me like 6 months. I have been getting about a month and a half on mine.

Crystal clear on what you mean about the 30psi.

Can you tell me what the range of the two dials should be? Should the pressure always be 800psi or is that just for your tank? How fast will it drop to 0?

 

[Jen]

The 800 psi is on the co2 cylinder itself. Whether thats just for 5lb tanks or all of them, I dont know. That is what the tank starts off as. I honestly couldn't tell you how quickly it drops. It depends on all the factors in that last paragraph I wrote. Once I have the bubbles going and the co2 level where I want it I don't look at the tank again until I notice that it has stopped bubbleing.

CAL... Don't forget that $200 is in Canadian Dollars. You're best be is to call around to a few of the places I mentioned and price things out. And don't forget about Ebay and even your local classified ads. you never know.

The Red Sea unit you linked to is pretty much the same as the Nutra fin you are already using, but more expensive in the long run. The replacement cartridges are $9, and you can re-fill the nutrafin ones with yeast, sugar and baking soda in stead of buying the new packets once a month.

 

[Discomafia]

Ahh, ok, I get it now.

Why do I see such a difference in prices on ebay when searching for regulators? What makes Milwaukee so expensive (it's OK, I found out that they're selling the bubble counter and solenoid too ) ) What made you decide to buy from a welding shop?

Thanks for having the patience to type this stuff, really appreciate it!

 

[Jen]

I love that I am able to help... I'm sure I was asking this many questions when I was first starting out... that was only 3 months ago! I'm sure I bugged the heck out of George. I was asking him millions of questions.

I chose the welding shop for the tank only because they were the cheapest around. The tank was 85 there, and the brewing shops were asking $125. I was going to get my regulator at a brewer because they were cheaper, but the welder matched the price. Wait. I have the prices mixed up. I got the tank for 115 at the welder, which was still tons cheaper than the brewers. I think they wanted 150, and the guy matched the regulator at 85. Thats more like it.