Upgraded To Tank Of Death!?

[eduller]

Long story short, moved my fish from a 10G to a 54G over the weekend.
 
-2 glofish, 1 leopard danio, 2 golden snails.
-54G with a Marineland Magnum 350 filter, heater, bubble stone
-Live plants, normal gravel, home-made 3D background using TOTALLY SAFE materials - I checked, double checked, triple checked with the companies who made the products I used, and there is also a ton of anecdotal evidence from people all over the web who used the same exact components I used in mine
 
I moved the fish to the new tank on Saturday. All was good. Had the tank up and running for a week beforehand, checked the cycle, all was good, did 100% water change before putting the fish in. Everyone was happy.
 
Last night, I noticed one of the fish in particular was just kind of hovering in one corner of the tank. He would go swim around with the others for a while and then go back to the corner. Sometimes the other 2 fish would hang there with him, but they weren't there as often. The snails seemed fine.
 
Got home from work today, and one of the snails is motionless and spewed half out of its shell. Thought it was dead. Put my daughter to bed, and when I was finished, the snail had moved slightly and pulled back into the shell a little. Then it didn't move a muscle for an hour. I picked it up (kept it in the water), and it didn't move. I put it in a net to observe, and it moved slightly a couple of times. Put it back in. It hasn't moved again. I'm pretty sure it's dead. And the fish are now all returning to that same corner together and just hovering around. These fish were VERY active in the 10G tank. They never hovered, never sat still. Like, never. Now they will swim around but then retreat back to the corner.
 
All the water parameters are perfect. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite, 7.4 pH, 74 degrees. I have tested twice a day every day and no detectable anything. I have changed as much water as I could the last 3 nights in a row just because I know water changing seems to be the first line of defense when anything is wrong. I fed them last night, and they all ate just fine. I fed them a tiny pinch of flakes tonight just to see how they would react. One of them ate normally and the other two just swam around under the surface and didn't eat. None of them has EVER not eaten before. 
 
Can anyone please help me determine what the problem is? I kept these poor things alive in a 5G tank for 3 months during a fish-in cycle, changing the water twice a day every day and never letting the ammonia get over .25 and it rarely even reached that. I didn't put in all that work just to kill them with a new bigger tank. This is supposed to be a great new home for them.
 
There are no visible signs of illness, injury, or distress in the fish other than the hovering in a corner. There are no marks or cracks or obvious indicators of why the snail died. The other snail seems okay, but I am literally just sitting here now looking at them every 20 seconds because I'm convinced they're all dying. I don't know what to do. They were their old normal selves during the water change. When I would change the water in the small tank, they would always excitedly swim around the gravel vacuum really playfully. And then when I was filling back up, they would swim back and forth through the stream of water. They are still doing that. 
 
I have no idea what to do. I have a new betta in their old 10G tank (who is doing splendidly, by the way), so I can't just put them back in. And I don't know if moving them again is good or not. What if this is just shock? But then what killed the snail? I do have their original 5G tank I could return them to, but I don't know what good that would do. I don't know what in this tank could be hurting them. I'm so worried

 

[Corey90]

I don't know everything there is to know but I have a few questions that might help.
 
First off if the fish are just hiding and there is no signs of sickness like color loss, white or red marks, bad swimming patterns, or anything else then that would be normal of fish that are housed in a new tank.  When fish move into new territories even with the same tank mates they will take time to adjust and become comfortable.
 
You said you have been checking the water parameters so I don't think it's an issue with ammonia but that being said how did you set up the new filter?  Did you put some of the old media into the filter to carry bacteria over?
 
What water did you use to fill the tank?  Switching the fish over to a newly filled tank that is city water or well water could be a problem if it isn't cycled or filtered regardless of the filter bacteria.  I know some cities add chemicals to clean the water and if it hasn't been filtered or dechlorinated it could pose a threat.  
 
The issue with your snail I'm not so sure of.  I know that invertebrates can tend to be more sensitive to chemicals and other pollutants so that may be something.
 
I hope that your fish are just adjusting to their new home and will be out and healthy soon.  If any symptoms develop post them as soon as you can.  Hopefully someone else comes around soon with a better background for diagnosing these problems.

 

[eduller]

Thanks very much for the response. I'm totally freaking out. I had never had a fish in my life until 3 months ago, and now I'm a nervous wreck over them!
 
I put about a third of the media from the old filter (Eheim lava rock) into the new filter along with about a pound of gravel from an established tank at the (wonderful) LFS and also used Dr. Tim's One and Only for good measure. And I tested the cycle using ammonia drops and seeing how long it took for the ammonia to disappear.
 
I'm using city tap water, which is the same water from the same tap that I was using for the smaller tank. I actually look up our city water report very regularly, as I have a toddler and want to be sure she's drinking safe water. We actually have some of the cleanest tap water in the country in terms of chemicals and pollutants. It is medium hardness. No detectable ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite out of the tap. I dechlorinate with Seachem Prime every time. 
 
I did just put a filter sock on the new filter output to baffle it a little bit in case that's the problem for the fish. I have to say I'm not loving this filter. It sounds like someone is taking a shower in my living room now, and the output is quite rough, so I might be starting to look for a new one with an adjustable flow anyway.
 
I suppose it's possible that the snail was a coincidence, but the little guy seemed perfectly perky and healthy previously. I know it's a risk, but I left him in the tank  in case he's just shocked or hiding or whatever. I will take him out in the morning if he hasn't moved. You have helped put my mind at east a little bit with the hopes that it's just adjustment from the big move. I know also that 3 danios isn't a large enough group. I wasn't able to get more of them in the small tank, but I planned on getting another 3-4 this weekend after being sure everything went well with moving tanks. Could they maybe also be realizing more that there aren't enough of them now that they're in this cavernous tank?

 

[EllieJellyEllie]

Im sorry for your troubles! It seems you may be going through a mini-cycle.

Is there a reason you did not mpve all the filter bacteria? You couldve plopped the filter on the tank.

Also, what are you using to test? Strips arent very reliable, so tablet and liquid tests are recommended. The one seen most around here is the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, as this is fairly cheap, and has all the tests you need.

If the fish are just hiding, that is perfectly normal, they dont have anyone to shoal with, and they just channged enviorments, they will likely be very stressed.

As for the snail, is this tank second hand? If it was, there is a chance the old owners could have used anything with copper in it, and invertebrates are very sensitive to copper.

I would stop the water changes, keep an eye on the fish, and check the levels everyday. The water changes are probably stressing the fish even more. If they dont eat in another week or so, you may be looking at an illness.

 

[eduller]

Okay so I'm completely insane. The "dead" snail is now crawling around the tank...
 
I didn't move all the filter media because the old tank is now homing a betta. I had full intentions of just moving the whole thing, but I got this betta for my desktop tank at work and my daughter fell in love with it so I told her we could keep it. So, we now have 2 fish tanks. 
 
I am using the liquid test kit. And yes, the tank is second hand. From what I know, it was used to house goldfish fry - the guy I got the tank from raises goldfish for ponds. I did wash the tank very thoroughly in vinegar and hot water several times and also filled and drained it 4-5 times before setting it up. But I know rinsing can't remove every trace of everything. There definitely was something up with the snail, but I guess it wasn't fatal. 
 
I'm going to stop freaking out now until something else happens. I'll go ahead and get 3 more glofish this weekend and see what happens.
 
Thanks as always for the responses and help. I'm new to this, and also now completely obsessed. I'm really invested in keeping these things alive and the thought that my attempt to help them by moving to a nice big tank may hurt them was too much for my fragile psyche lol.

 

[Ninjouzata]

I'm confused as to why there aren't any nitrates? Do you have a ton of plants?
 
I wouldn't worry overly much at your snail, sometimes they'll just close up for a few days or be partially hanging out, being weirdos.
If you think it's dead take it out and sniff it. You'll know if it's dead or not, trust me.
 
I think your fishies are just settling in. Hope they perk up.

 

[eduller]

I have quite a lot of plants in the new tank. I have 3 large clusters of hornwort, about 15 stalks of moneywort, a large amazon sword, 3 moss balls, and 2 little java ferns. I don't know if that counts as heavily planted or not. It's a really big tank, relative to my other tank, and it seems pretty sparse to me, but I suppose it's relative. It's also possible that there are nitrates that I'm not discerning. I have a history of having a hard time distinguishing shades of yellow, especially as it ranges into orange/red. The ammonia is easier, but I have a hard time reading the nitrate test.
 
Oooh I read some tales last night of smelling dead snails, and I'd not care to attempt that. I was even going through my head how I would get the thing out of there and into the garbage without having to smell it! I'm so glad Turbo perked up though. I really totally thought he was dead. I'm really glad I decided to give him another chance and leave him in the tank overnight!

 

[Ninjouzata]

I don't know how to tell if it's dead other than sniffing. Unless you leave it in the tank long enough and pull it out and tons of gunk falls out 

I waited a bit too long for one of mine..
 
That's funny yours is named Turbo, my favorite one is also named that. He's blue.

 

[eduller]

Okay all the fish were dead this morning. Ugh. I scooped the snails out and put them in the betta tank. I have no idea what happened. They were definitely acting strangely, but nothing super distressing or obvious. They ate yesterday morning, but none of them would eat last night. I should have followed my instincts ans taken them all out of that tank when I felt like there was a problem.

How do I figure out what happened? The water parameters are all fine. I even brought my second liquid test kit home from work and retested, and it was fine. I don't even want this tank now. I know logically the tank itself didn't do anything but I dont want to put anything in it. What do I do? Clean it completely and do another fishless cycle and hope it doesn't kill anymore fish? I don't want to hurt anything else

 

[Corey90]

Sorry to hear that
 
I would try cleaning it out and doing a true fishless cycle.  There are a lot of threads about it.  Once the cycle is almost done plant the tank then get some kind of hardy fish and see how it goes.  I can't think of what would have happened if the parameters were fine.  There must have been some sort of contaminant in the water.  I really wish I could help more.  What were the exact parameters?

 

[eduller]

The water parameters, from the time I put the fish in (which was last week Saturday), were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, wavered between 0 and 5 nitrate, pH is always 7.4. The temperature is a constant 75 F. I just wish I knew what went wrong. It was such a light biological load for the tank size that even if it was cycling, I can't imagine it would have killed 3 healthy fish in less than a week. And I was doing water changes on top of that. Maybe I should keep some activated carbon and/or Purigen in the filter? I have quite a number of live plants which are all doing just fine, but I know that plants aren't susceptible to the same issues as animals. One of the snails seemed perfectly fine while the other one kept kind of playing dead.
 
I'm getting a new filter because the one I have is just too loud for the living room - I think I'm getting an Eheim Ecco Pro. I actually have it in my shopping basket on Doctors Foster & Smith right now but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I feel like maybe I should just start fresh with fresh filter media, which is probably stupid. But it might provide a little peace of mind.

 

[colleen0309]

I run the same filter on most of my tanks, I have 10 running right now. The only time I have had a problem with this filter being loud is when the water level drops too much due to evaporation. Instead of buying a new filter, can you bring the water level up? I've been using this filter(penguin/marineland) since before there was a Drs. Foster and Smith with no issues. I briefly switched to canister filters, but found the 350 does a better job. I know this doesn't help with your fish deaths, but it might save you some money.

 

[vanvran]

eduller, I'm so sorry to hear about your fish!  Don't give up.  I've had fish for almost 10 years (most of the time, a single betta because I love them madly).  I had the same exact issue this past winter.  I bought a gorgeous perfect white elephant betta.  I made sure every milimeter of fin was perfect.  I had him in a 1.5 tank alone, with tiny filter and heater.  He was perfectly happy.  Then I read that he should be in at least a 2 gallon tank, so I went out and bought a new 5 gallon tank.  I did a fishless cycle, and acclimated him to the new tank.  He was great the first day, then began to hide in the corner for weeks.  He was a completely different fish.  Now, over time, he's lost almost all his fins.  Here I thought I was giving him a better home and I actually will end up probably losing him.    

 

[Catfishlover]

What you are reporting sounds very similar to what my fish did before it started to starve itself. Maybe there's a connection? As for the snail, my snails do the same thing. I think they're nocturnal.