Update On Sushi . . . Could Use More Advice

[smg0918]

I am continuing to treat Sushi for fungus and ich, although I'm not sure he has either. I have done a 1/2 water change every other day since Thursday, treating the bowl each time with more Stress Coat and Rid Ich. But now I'm afraid he may have fin rot. His dorsal fin seems to be splitting and has a hole in it. I went to PetSmart yesterday and left even more confused than when I went in. They basically told me that I can't combine Rid Ich with any other treatment, and that I should change out his water completely, let the water sit with no treatment for several days, and then treat with Bettafix. That simply cannot be right. I can't imagine not treating him for several days when he seems unwell.

The spot on his head has not gotten any bigger, nor has it gotten any better. The two tiny white spots on his back near his dorsal fin are still there. He refuses to eat anything but freeze dried bloodworms. I bought a new package of the Hikari pellets thinking the ones I had might be stale, but he won't eat them. He goes right for it the minute I put a pellet in his bowl, but seems to try to chew it for a bit and ultimately spits it out. I bought frozen bloodworms and he did the same thing -- went right for them and then spit them out. The only thing he will actually swallow is the freeze dried variety. How long can I continue to feed him just that? And how much should I be feeding him each day?

What do you recommend for treatment? I'm afraid the fin rot is really going to do a number on him quickly if I don't get it under control. Should I be trying an antibiotic at this point?

I've given up on the PetSmart people.

Thanks for any advice. (And sorry I do not have a camera with me to post a picture of him.)

 

[bettainseattle]

I saw that you have not received any responses so I wanted to send a reply to say that I feel for you.

I am in the same boat with my betta. He has had fin rot for months and I have gotten so many different answers from the fish store where I bought him and then from Petco that I have been overwhelmed and extremely frustrated for so long!

I put a posting on this forum and one of the members was kind enough to chat with offline about my situation and suggested Maracyn Plus.

Not wanting to return to the fish store or to Petco to buy the Maracyn Plus, I looked in the yellow pages and I went to yet a third pet/fish store to buy it and chatted with the owner about all that I had been going through and he ended up suggesting a medicine that is not out in the general market, it is for commercial use, that would be for fin rot and white spots but safe for the catfish we have in tank. He gave me a couple of capsules (no packaging) so I do not know what it is. I received such amazing customer service from this store. They tested my water and found out the ammonia and pH were a little high and walked me through everything that I need to do to treat the water and treat betta. This treatment that I will be giving betta with this medicine invloves giving him medicine and 50% water changes every four days so I will be treating him for a couple of weeks. I am keeping fingers crossed that this works!

I hope that one of the more experienced members (like the one that I chatted with) or maybe another pet/fish store in your area can help you.

Good thoughts for Sushi ...

 

[Frollickyfish]

Hi

If I were you Id move or re post this in the Emergencies section as you will probably get answered quicker and with the best info.

 

[LauraFrog]

Since this is here I'll just answer it as best I can:

It's difficult to know what to do, but it does not sound like he has ich. If he did have it, the white spots would be moving because they are parasites. I would have expected to see them fall off and not come back due to the treatment, or else spread all over his body. Fungus might start out flat but usually goes fuzzy and may spread. Is there any fuzziness on the thing on his head because that's fungus or columnaris. If he's still alive and the spots are not growing or spreading it doesn't sound like columnaris, but finrot can be associated with columnaris.

Does he scratch (flick in the water or rub on objects or the gravel)?

The petsmart people sound like idiots, they are right about it being unwise to combine medication but stress coat is not really a treatment at all. Bettafix is almost the same as melafix, it is melaleuca oil which is antibacterial. It is excellent for swim bladder disease or for speeding the regrowth of skin or fins where the wounds are not infected and already healing. It is too weak to do anything else. As for leaving him for a few days, I honestly think they might be right about that. You will do more harm than good randomly switching between treatments when you're not really sure what he has and therefore which treatment he needs. If he has not died yet, it is not a virulent form of columnaris. That means that he's likely to survive a few more weeks until you can get an accurate diagnosis and then the right treatment.

To me, it sounds from the last post (the history: 4 weeks in a 2 gallon bowl with no water changes based on poor advice from just this pet store) that whatever he has is a stress based condition caused by ammonia toxicity. The most important thing is to remove the stressor: ammonia. Change half the water daily. Yes, I know it's a pain in the neck, but it would be interesting to see what it does. I don't know whether I mentioned this before, but I have rescued bettas from bad pet stores in far worse condition than yours, with full blown finrot, ammonia burn, barely breathing, wounds, even fungus, not had appropriate meds so just used clean water with some salt in it and they have almost all survived.

 

[smg0918]

Since this is here I'll just answer it as best I can:

It's difficult to know what to do, but it does not sound like he has ich. If he did have it, the white spots would be moving because they are parasites. I would have expected to see them fall off and not come back due to the treatment, or else spread all over his body. Fungus might start out flat but usually goes fuzzy and may spread. Is there any fuzziness on the thing on his head because that's fungus or columnaris. If he's still alive and the spots are not growing or spreading it doesn't sound like columnaris, but finrot can be associated with columnaris.

Does he scratch (flick in the water or rub on objects or the gravel)?

The petsmart people sound like idiots, they are right about it being unwise to combine medication but stress coat is not really a treatment at all. Bettafix is almost the same as melafix, it is melaleuca oil which is antibacterial. It is excellent for swim bladder disease or for speeding the regrowth of skin or fins where the wounds are not infected and already healing. It is too weak to do anything else. As for leaving him for a few days, I honestly think they might be right about that. You will do more harm than good randomly switching between treatments when you're not really sure what he has and therefore which treatment he needs. If he has not died yet, it is not a virulent form of columnaris. That means that he's likely to survive a few more weeks until you can get an accurate diagnosis and then the right treatment.

To me, it sounds from the last post (the history: 4 weeks in a 2 gallon bowl with no water changes based on poor advice from just this pet store) that whatever he has is a stress based condition caused by ammonia toxicity. The most important thing is to remove the stressor: ammonia. Change half the water daily. Yes, I know it's a pain in the neck, but it would be interesting to see what it does. I don't know whether I mentioned this before, but I have rescued bettas from bad pet stores in far worse condition than yours, with full blown finrot, ammonia burn, barely breathing, wounds, even fungus, not had appropriate meds so just used clean water with some salt in it and they have almost all survived.

Thank you so much for responding -- this is VERY reassuring. In answer to your question, there is no fuzziness to the spot on his head nor to the two small specks of white on his back. They spot on his head is simply a discoloration. He is a vivid royal blue and the spot is just a different color -- sort of a dark green. The two white specks haven't changed at all and for all I know they've always been there. I'm really not certain. He does not scratch on anything, but then again there is nothing in his current "hospital" bowl for him to scratch on. He is just sort of listless, his fins are sort of collapsed and he's not swimming around much. When I first changed his bowl last week he seemed quite happy, but despite 50% water changes again on Friday and yesterday, he seems sort of out of it and now his fins look really ragged.

I will discontinue the Rid Ich and just change 50% of the water with aquarium salts then for the next several day and see how he does. I guess if he's not acting any better by the end of the week maybe then I should try an antibiotic? Or would that be too soon?

The good news is that I did get him to eat three Hikari pellets tonight, so that made me very happy.

 

[ThePiggy]

When I first got my male betta, it took me 4-5 days to get him to actually eat the pellets. He would eat tropical fish flakes. I'm not sure what he was getting fed before, but he wasn't used to the pellets. So I would offer him a pellet, if he didn't eat it in 3 or 4 minutes, I would remove it and try again later in the day. If he hadn't eaten before I was going to go to bed, I would give him a couple flakes so he wouldn't go hungry. Eventually, he started to prefer the pellets over the flakes. I believe that persistence in trying to get him to eat the pellets may work for you. Good luck!

 

[LauraFrog]

If he's eating it does sound promising.

There are some lazy bettas that will always float at the surface and never do anything (unless they see a female). I owned one a lot like that. It doesn't always mean they're sick, but if it's out of character there could be something wrong. Again, a photo would really help. There are several causes of finrot. Finrot from exposure to ammonia (some other forms also look like this) is where the ends of the fins go black and ragged and fall off, and holes may appear in the fins. Bacterial finrot - you get grey sections in the fins, and they start to fray so you end up with large holes in the fin membrane but often the rays (thicker structures that support the fin) are not damaged. Columnaris finrot - a white line appears on the edge of the fin and moves towards the body. This is almost always associated with white fuzzy patches on the face and head and is fatal anywhere from 12 hours to several days if not treated rapidly.

How fast is the finrot progressing? The first sort, which can be cured with salt, melafix and clean, warm water, is usually fairly slow to progress. The other conditions that usually occur beside it - ammonia poisoning or a slight internal infection kinda like a human with the flu - can make them a bit lethargic or stop them eating. The second sort I have never seen personally, so I can't really advise you on it. The third is caused by columnaris, which I'm fairly certain he doesn't have. Two and three need antibiotics, but I don't recommend pulling them out unless you have to. They are expensive, can be hard to get, and don't last forever so if you get old ones they're useless anyway. Overuse of antibiotics is never a good thing and they can also be stressful on the fish.

I really can't accurately work out what type of finrot it is or whether it's even finrot without seeing the fish or at least a clear photo. Sorry if I sound like a nagging mother, but it's the most useful thing you could give us all right now.

 

[smg0918]

If he's eating it does sound promising.

There are some lazy bettas that will always float at the surface and never do anything (unless they see a female). I owned one a lot like that. It doesn't always mean they're sick, but if it's out of character there could be something wrong. Again, a photo would really help. There are several causes of finrot. Finrot from exposure to ammonia (some other forms also look like this) is where the ends of the fins go black and ragged and fall off, and holes may appear in the fins. Bacterial finrot - you get grey sections in the fins, and they start to fray so you end up with large holes in the fin membrane but often the rays (thicker structures that support the fin) are not damaged. Columnaris finrot - a white line appears on the edge of the fin and moves towards the body. This is almost always associated with white fuzzy patches on the face and head and is fatal anywhere from 12 hours to several days if not treated rapidly.

How fast is the finrot progressing? The first sort, which can be cured with salt, melafix and clean, warm water, is usually fairly slow to progress. The other conditions that usually occur beside it - ammonia poisoning or a slight internal infection kinda like a human with the flu - can make them a bit lethargic or stop them eating. The second sort I have never seen personally, so I can't really advise you on it. The third is caused by columnaris, which I'm fairly certain he doesn't have. Two and three need antibiotics, but I don't recommend pulling them out unless you have to. They are expensive, can be hard to get, and don't last forever so if you get old ones they're useless anyway. Overuse of antibiotics is never a good thing and they can also be stressful on the fish.

I really can't accurately work out what type of finrot it is or whether it's even finrot without seeing the fish or at least a clear photo. Sorry if I sound like a nagging mother, but it's the most useful thing you could give us all right now.

Thanks again for responding. I will bring my camera tomorrow and get some pictures of him. This listless behavior, fins sort of hanging there and not eating is definitely out of character for him. He is usually a really happy little guy, swims right to me the minute I walk toward the bowl and waves the little fins on the side of his head like mad as if to say "hello." And until last week he was a voracious eater and attacked his pellets the minute I fed him. So I am certain he is ill (and given that I failed to change his water it's no wonder ).

His fins do not appear to have any black on them at all. The edges may have a very slight tinge of white but they could have been like that all along. His tailfin seems to be the only one affected at this point -- it is still fairly long but seems to have split in places, there are a few holes in it and it does look like it's getting shorter to me. I don't think it's progressing terribly rapidly, but then again I wasn't looking at him under a microscope like this until last week. From your description it sounds most like bacterial finrot. How quickly can that progress if I don't start treating him with antibiotics?