UN Stunting!

[rick999]

i've recently aquired some fish in a 3ft tank second hand job! there's a silver/bala shark about 6-8 inch long a tinfoil barb same size and 3 clown loach that must me 6" each.
i'm sure that a 3ft tank is too small for one of there never mind the whole lot, now there split up, the bala and tinfoil in a 4ft 18 15 and the clowns in the 3ft.
will the fish begin to grow into there new tank now or will they suffer from the stunting effect they have already undergone, i know the 4ft won't be big enough for ever but there's a 6ft and deep monster planned for crimbo ish time then the clowns get the 4ft too

so is the damage already done by previous owner?

 

[WILDER]

It depends on how long the were in the tank to stunt their growth, but I think they should be ok and grow with a good diet.

 

[rick999]

unfortunatly i've no idea of the history there were also 4 black widows and a loach probably a pakistane loach but hard to identify, which had had a broken back in the past so it's a wierd shape now, most of the fish were bought at the same time and have always lived in the same tank, oh and a massive angel fish again 5-6 inch long, so there gonna be a fair age, i bought mainly for the tank and equipmeant the fish were just a nice V nice bonus, there being well fed live food for 4 days then frozen blood at night and flake, and pellets for breakfast!

 

[WILDER]

Poor things at least their gone to a good home now, good luck with the new arrivals.

 

[Matty]

sorry, but I dont think that you could un-stunt a fish

 

[BlueIce]

Being in too small a tank didn't stunt their growth...
HOWEVER-If the water quality was bad and / or the nutrition not up to par,and/or if there was disease in the tank...THOSE things could stunt the growth.

 

[ddm18]

As I understand it, the stunting effect is a natural ability to stop growing externally if it's necessary for their environment (during a drought - I guess...), but that their internal organs continue to grow, which will eventually kill them if they don't find a bigger space, in which to grow properly.

I've heard people saying that if they stay 'stunted' for too long, it becomes permanent, but I don't really understand that - to me it seems logical that if they're able to un-stunt after 3 months, why shouldn't they be able to after 3 years? It's surely only a case of growing new cells.....?

My suggestion: keep a note of how big they are now, and see if they do grow or not! Oh, and keep us informed of your findings!!!

 

[blue_ram]

As I understand it, the stunting effect is a natural ability to stop growing externally if it's necessary for their environment (during a drought - I guess...), but that their internal organs continue to grow, which will eventually kill them if they don't find a bigger space, in which to grow properly.

I have difficult time convincing myself with the concept that the internal organs grow while the fish as a whole doesn't. Why would there be a need for the internal organs to grow? Certainly, fish doesn't benefit from larger heart, liver, etc. Also, if the organs grow, shouldn't you be able to see the fish blowing up like a balloon?

I've heard people saying that if they stay 'stunted' for too long, it becomes permanent, but I don't really understand that - to me it seems logical that if they're able to un-stunt after 3 months, why shouldn't they be able to after 3 years? It's surely only a case of growing new cells.....?

I had an unfortunate experience of keeping the zebra danio frys for 5 mos in 5g pail, because I couldn't find anyone who would want them, and didn't have a room for another aquarium. Those guys definitely suffered a stunted growth. But once they were moved into my 30g, they started to grow again; albeit slowly. It seems to me that fish with stunted growth during early stages of its life will always be small, but will continue to grow, once the environment improves.

 

[Bignose]

Blue_ram brings up a good point. Why would nature allow the organs to grow bigger? Does anyone have a stunted fish (not 'heard about' or 'saw in the store') but actually have one? And, then, only if it was stunted from being kept in too small a home, not from having a tumor or being exposed to pollution or from being inbred, etc.

Stunting occurs in nature all the time -- it is the natural response to a limit in the environment. Sport fishermen know this vey well. When the fish out of a partiular lake are all coming out small becuase of a lack of food or lower water levels, they go and fish a different lake.

Long-term limits on the environments is why we have the dwarf fishes of some of our favorites -- like dwarf cichlids and dwarf gouramies. Nature limits the growth of the fish so that they dont run into starvation and overpopulation as quickly.

None of the books I have read talk about stunting causing the organs to keep growing. I have only seen this talked about on the Internet. Not that I am condoning stunting, and you cannot produce dwarf species in just a few generations (nature takes longer than that) and living in too small a tank is not a happy existance and the fish's life is undoubtedly shortened -- it just does not appear to be any real evidence of these bulging organs everyone talks about.

 

[ddm18]

It's a very good point - the only reason that I can see for the organs to continue to grow (and I don't think that this is very likely!) would be so that as soon as the fish was able to grow again, it could grow very quickly, thus becoming the 'bigger fish' and being at the top of the pecking order. From what blue_ram says though, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'll annoy my biologist friend when I see him tomorrow and see what thoughts he has!!!