Un-level Concrete Floor Will Using Camping Mat Under Cabinet Help ?

[pdludbrooke]

I recently bought and set up a 4ft seashell tank, I used a camping mat under the tank on top of the cabinet, I noticed that the right end of the cabinet top was bending slightly up, so I removed the front part of the cabinet so I could see where the tank and camping mat met the cabinet, the camping mat was squashed down to about 2mm on the right hand side for about 3 inches but level at 8mm all the way along after, the uneven concrete floor I have in my flat was causing the cabinet to bow upward.

I thought I had a faulty cabinet, but after emptying and removing the tank the cabinet was level again, I had to use some shims to level out the cabinet before to get level readings from my spirit level, but this does not solve the problem as the cabinet obviously has bowed due to the shims, would placing 2 camping mats cut to size on top of each other placed under the cabinet compensate for my uneven floor, I would put two camping mats cut to size on top of each other under the tank as well.

 

[ian_m]

I would have thought you want to level the cabinet top by using shims which will be much harder now with bowed cabinet. My mate had an issue with his cabinet bowing/bending under tank weight that caused the silicone on the tank corners to "tear" and tank spring a leak so it is important to get the cabinet correct.

 

[Mikey1]

what type of cabinet are you talking about?

does it have a flat bottom? or does it have "legs"?

from what you are saying, it sounds like the cabinet has been destroyed and is now unsafe to hold a tank,

i would never use any soft material such as foam or a mat under my tank OR stand.....any shimming must be done with firm materials like wood....cabinets with a flat bottom can not be safely shimmed, they need a level floor,

a tank and stand need to be completely level and the tank needs to be supported all the way around the perimeter....failure to this can result in your tank panels "shifting", which is what the previous poster has described,

it also depends on how much of a slope we are talking about....fill the tank with a few inches of water then measure from the stand up to the water line at the far right end, then do the same at the far left end, how much difference is there?

 

[fish+peace]

Most modern tanks, unless they specifically say so, dont need any cushioning underneath and must be placed on a flat level surface, sounds like your cabinet has warped hopefully you haven't stressed the tank too much and it will be ok BUT i would seriously examine that cabinet on known level ground to make sure it's firm and square if in doubt replace it as the tank full of water is going to be heavy and need a firm and level support

The best bet with your floor is to mark a spec out big enough for the stand and get some self leveling concrete from the hardware store. You need a good base to spread the weight of the tank out evenly so the tank doesn't stress and break nor the stand.

Preperation will save you down the road as you don't want to be draining and moving it again if you don't get it right

 

[pdludbrooke]

The cabinet is not destroyed it is fine now I have removed the water from the tank, the uneven concrete caused the cabinet to bend, the tank was completly supported by the mat underneath it. I only had it filled up for a week and saw the cabinet looking odd at that one end and acted straight away, the tank holds 230 lires of water.

I find it very strange that there is nothing I can do to sort out the floor problem, surely if I was to put several camping mats under a piece of wood cut to the same size as the base of my aquarium stand and then place the stand on this, what do you think ?

what type of cabinet are you talking about?

does it have a flat bottom? or does it have "legs"?

from what you are saying, it sounds like the cabinet has been destroyed and is now unsafe to hold a tank,

i would never use any soft material such as foam or a mat under my tank OR stand.....any shimming must be done with firm materials like wood....cabinets with a flat bottom can not be safely shimmed, they need a level floor,

a tank and stand need to be completely level and the tank needs to be supported all the way around the perimeter....failure to this can result in your tank panels "shifting", which is what the previous poster has described,

it also depends on how much of a slope we are talking about....fill the tank with a few inches of water then measure from the stand up to the water line at the far right end, then do the same at the far left end, how much difference is there?

it is a flat bottom cabinet sold with the tank from maidenhead aquatics, the uneven ness of the concrete flor is about 5mm

 

[bodge99]

Hello,

Anything that is placed under the cabinet will compress... How much depends on the strength of the packing material and the force on it (derived from the weight of the tank). The cabinet has to transfer this force "evenly" or you will see distortion as you have described. This can lead to catastrophic failure if not corrected..

IMHO, the best, long term solution is to level the floor in the area where the tank will live. A bit of clever shuttering before pouring the leveller could make the mod almost invisible.

You might have a bit of a problem doing this if your property is rented etc.

For somewhere like this, you might be able to use something like planking laid onto the concrete / fixed to the cabinet underside.. cut to the exact size of the cabinet and planed to give a true level.

If your cabinet has feet, then it might be possible to use adjustable replacements. These would have to be load rated to suit your tank.

Good luck!

Bodge99

 

[Mikey1]

surely if I was to put several camping mats under a piece of wood cut to the same size as the base of my aquarium stand and then place the stand on this, what do you think ?

i have already told you what i think.....a flat bottom stand can not, and should not be shimmed.....i have also said i would never put any type of soft foam or mat under my aquarium, or aquarium stand, and i would never recommend doing so.....however, its your tank, your stand, your place to live in, and therefore your decision to make....good luck

 

[pdludbrooke]

I'm a bit stuck then, I wish the idiots who built this flat had of bothered to make sure the floors were level, I have tried several other places and there is uneven bits every where, this is very frustrating. Can anyone help ?

So if I was to go down the self leveling concrete road would this sort my problem out ?

surely if I was to put several camping mats under a piece of wood cut to the same size as the base of my aquarium stand and then place the stand on this, what do you think ?

i have already told you what i think.....a flat bottom stand can not, and should not be shimmed.....i have also said i would never put any type of soft foam or mat under my aquarium, or aquarium stand, and i would never recommend doing so.....however, its your tank, your stand, your place to live in, and therefore your decision to make....good luck

The tank makers instrutions are to have polystyrene tiles between the tank and cabinet, I feel so frustrated at not being able to find a solution to leveling this floor so the cabinet is true.

Hello,

Anything that is placed under the cabinet will compress... How much depends on the strength of the packing material and the force on it (derived from the weight of the tank). The cabinet has to transfer this force "evenly" or you will see distortion as you have described. This can lead to catastrophic failure if not corrected..

IMHO, the best, long term solution is to level the floor in the area where the tank will live. A bit of clever shuttering before pouring the leveller could make the mod almost invisible.

You might have a bit of a problem doing this if your property is rented etc.

For somewhere like this, you might be able to use something like planking laid onto the concrete / fixed to the cabinet underside.. cut to the exact size of the cabinet and planed to give a true level.

If your cabinet has feet, then it might be possible to use adjustable replacements. These would have to be load rated to suit your tank.

Good luck!

Bodge99

Can you explain further, my cabinet has no feet just a
flat bottom

 

[bodge99]

Hello.

It appears that your tank is not constructed in a frame and is "bare bottomed". The reason that the tank manufacturers have specified polystyrene tiles between the tank and cabinet is to "even out" any stresses on the tank structure due to any imperfections or slight "out of true" issues with the cabinet.

There are considerable stresses in a filled tank. Significant engineering conditions must be met for the tank to remain intact (adequate glass thickness, tank bracing, even stress/weight distribution etc.).
This is why you will find many fish keepers are very sensitive to any suggestion which is "really asking for trouble"..

We do appreciate that you have a very real problem and are trying to solve it quickly, easily and cheaply.

I have had a table with 3 tanks on it collapse (no significant damage... just a large mess and some stock lost.)
This was solely down to my stupidity.. I did know better... I must have been in "full prat mode"... say no more.

It would appear that your cabinet is flat bottomed (i.e. it does not have feet). I would also assume that it is manufactured out of chipboard or MDF (medium density fibreboard). These materials are perfectly O.K. if they are used within their limitations.
The most important being that they are kept dry and evenly stressed.

I would only consider an adjustable feet mod to the cabinet if you can also work in a significant load distribution method. This would probably mean a good beefy subframe built out of wood or a welded metal frame/lattice made of (for example) 1" square steel tube. Unless you have good woodworking or welding skills then you would probably have to pay someone to do this for you.

I think that the suggestion of using floor leveling compound would be the easiest way to solve this problem.

Move the tank and cabinet away from its final location... Pull back the carpet and place the cabinet in its desired location.
Mark the floor with the outline of the cabinet. Now obtain some 1" (or so) square section lengths of wood. Mark and cut them to make a frame (on the outside of the markings made on the floor).

Screw or nail the frame together and place in the desired location.
Obtain some leveller.. (diy shop or builders merchants) . Mix as per packet instructions and pour into the frame (to at least the minimum recommended thickness). Trowel approximately level and leave settle and to set.

If the instructions state that it takes 12 hours to set, then leave it 24 hours. Remove the frame.

You can add a bevel/radius to the frame if your DIY skills are up to it... or add a radius to the levelled part after the frame has been removed.

Replace the carpet. Locate the cabinet (ensure that it is exactly in place) and tank. Proceed as normal from here....

Good luck.

Bodge99.

 

[tribalbrit]

As Bodge99 says, make a frame on the floor and poor in the self levelling compound, (cemporlay) or similar. Magnets is the cheapest for this. Mix with water until cream like.
However 1" is to thick to pore in one go, 1/4" max. If more is required build up in layers. If mixed right no trowelling should be needed, it should level it's self. Only poor in enough to eradicate the unlevel floor.

 

[Mikey1]

if you are handy with wood work i would suggest you ditch that stand and build your own....i will attach a picture of a stand i built just a month ago for my 100 gallon....my concrete floor was unlevel just like yours, so i have compensated for that by making the legs of the stand slightly different lengths, so the top of the stand and tank are completely level....and believe me, this stand is ALOT stronger than any stand you will buy in a store....View attachment 68577

 

[bodge99]

Mikey1:

Nice work... good engineering practice... well done that man!!

Bodge99

 

[Mikey1]

Mikey1:

Nice work... good engineering practice... well done that man!!

Bodge99

thanks....i have built about 6-8 stands using that same design.....some of them i have finished off the outside with wood panelling to make them look nice, then i put a door on the front so i can store supplies and stuff underneath

 

[pdludbrooke]

Well I have taken the risk of correcting my un even concrete floor using a unconventional way. I have cut an inch thick piece of chip board top from a large computer desk, I have leveled it perfectly using A4 sheets of paer cut to size under the chip board top (it's an inch thick) and placed the original cabinet on top, I have filled the tank and as you can see it is level, I will leave this for a week or so just to check, I added 20 sheets under one corner under the side panel (left) 35 sheets under the middle panel and 41 sheets under the right panel. wish me luck!!

 

[pdludbrooke]

it is perfectly level from the bottom up, I couldn't have built a concrete base as I rent this property, as you can see from the mat under the tank the weight is evenly spread out to the top of the cabinet, here is what it looked like before (new mat)

I am hoping I will know if something is going wrrong by looking at the mat underneath the tank as it will become distorted and compressed and irregular, my spirit levels will live on the cabinet for now, I had to try something, as I see it the three main bits that put the weight down to the cabinet base are all supported via the A4 sheets under the chip board in their location.