This started before the gravel was removed from the aquarium. It was probably triggered by high nitrates but I doubt environment is the issue. I have had plecos in bare glass tanks with no substrate and they were fine.
Please help my pleco (mouth closed, not breathing normally)
- Thread starter blyatboy
- Start date
Don't stop doing water changes. Keep doing them because he improves with the water changes.
Ho no, if you identified nitrate as the source of the problem... Don't stop the water changes... What i said is based on the very first pics...
Hi all. Would like to check in for an update.
I've been doing ~60% water changes these past few days, pre-treating my tap water with Nitra-Zorb (which lowered tap water nitrates from 20 PPM down to <5 PPM).
These past few days, a common pattern has emerged:
What concerns me the most right now is actually his eyes. They seem to have gotten even more cloudy, though he still seems visually alert:
It's hard to capture on camera, but from the side, it does look like it is largely limited to the cornea, and not any deeper:
Cross referencing past pictures, it does not appear the eye is bulging, but I can't be 100% certain. At this point, can we still rule out bacterial infection? All the guppies are doing fine so far, nothing to report for them. Overall nitrate level in the tank is well under 10 PPM now.
Appreciate all of the replies so far.
I've been doing ~60% water changes these past few days, pre-treating my tap water with Nitra-Zorb (which lowered tap water nitrates from 20 PPM down to <5 PPM).
These past few days, a common pattern has emerged:
- Largely inactive, relapsed behaviour throughout the day (mouth shut, not breathing, surfacing for air every ~20 minutes)
- Closer to feeding time, he would start grazing around and breathing normally
- During and after feeding, he would be very active, breathing normally, acting almost 100% recovered. This would continue well into the early morning (at least past 2 AM, and sometimes I would catch him at 6 AM acting very much normally, sucking on glass etc.)
- By the time I get up at 9 AM or 10 AM, he would have "relapsed" again, and the whole cycle continues...
What concerns me the most right now is actually his eyes. They seem to have gotten even more cloudy, though he still seems visually alert:
It's hard to capture on camera, but from the side, it does look like it is largely limited to the cornea, and not any deeper:
Cross referencing past pictures, it does not appear the eye is bulging, but I can't be 100% certain. At this point, can we still rule out bacterial infection? All the guppies are doing fine so far, nothing to report for them. Overall nitrate level in the tank is well under 10 PPM now.
Appreciate all of the replies so far.
It's unlikely to be a bacterial infection in both eyes at the same time. Normally if an eye gets injured it will become milky cloudy over the outside and might swell up for a bit. After a few days with clean water the eye should be back to normal.
If the eye was badly damaged it will have blood in it (you can see red in the eye) and the fish might go blind in that eye. If the damage isn't extreme it might lose some vision in that eye.
The fact both eyes developed the white bit at the same time would suggest something other than a bacterial infection. Bacterial infections also tend to move fast and eyes can be good one day and really bad a day or two later. This is kind of weird because both eyes developed the white bit at the same time but it hasn't turned into anything resembling a bacterial infection.
I think the eyes are a monitor and see what happens issue.
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As for the weird breathing, I wonder if it's the fish sleeping and resting. You mention when you recently watched the fish it was breathing normally while it was active and feeding and for some hours after this. Then it started resting and the breathing pattern changed. It might be that particular fish has a weird breathing pattern when resting. This might not be documented because most people don't watch their fish that closely.
Regarding the breathing issue. I would see how the fish goes over the next month with the clean water (nitrate free tap water thanks to the nitra-zorb). Update this thread if there's a change.
These fish are nocturnal so sleeping during the day (when the tank light is on) is normal for them. If the fish is breathing normally for 12-16 hours a day and breathes unusually for 8 hours, then it might be the fish's sleep breathing pattern that you are seeing. If this is the case, record it in high-def and keep it for scientific reasons.
The fact the fish eats well and swims and breathes normally during and after feeding would suggest it doesn't have an infection in the mouth or throat area.
You could put a piece of pvc pipe in the tank for the fish to sleep in
If the eye was badly damaged it will have blood in it (you can see red in the eye) and the fish might go blind in that eye. If the damage isn't extreme it might lose some vision in that eye.
The fact both eyes developed the white bit at the same time would suggest something other than a bacterial infection. Bacterial infections also tend to move fast and eyes can be good one day and really bad a day or two later. This is kind of weird because both eyes developed the white bit at the same time but it hasn't turned into anything resembling a bacterial infection.
I think the eyes are a monitor and see what happens issue.
--------------------
As for the weird breathing, I wonder if it's the fish sleeping and resting. You mention when you recently watched the fish it was breathing normally while it was active and feeding and for some hours after this. Then it started resting and the breathing pattern changed. It might be that particular fish has a weird breathing pattern when resting. This might not be documented because most people don't watch their fish that closely.
Regarding the breathing issue. I would see how the fish goes over the next month with the clean water (nitrate free tap water thanks to the nitra-zorb). Update this thread if there's a change.
These fish are nocturnal so sleeping during the day (when the tank light is on) is normal for them. If the fish is breathing normally for 12-16 hours a day and breathes unusually for 8 hours, then it might be the fish's sleep breathing pattern that you are seeing. If this is the case, record it in high-def and keep it for scientific reasons.
The fact the fish eats well and swims and breathes normally during and after feeding would suggest it doesn't have an infection in the mouth or throat area.
You could put a piece of pvc pipe in the tank for the fish to sleep in
I'm starting to wonder the same too. But it's just weird he was completely normal for all these years we've had him, then decided to do this out of the blue.
Perhaps the nitrates did some long-lasting damage on him? Then again, that week long period of seemingly complete recovery, plus the current on-and-off behavior just confuses me.
Realistically, it's more like he breathes normally for 8 hours, and rests dormant for 16. He has a cave and vegetation to hide under, but he always chooses to stay out in the open during the day, near the filter intake. I agree with all of your takes so far, and I'm starting to worry there isn't much else I can do to help him right now. Just a really weird case that nobody else seems to have come across. Thanks very much, will update again soon.
Sorry to keep bumping. Would just like to dump some more info in case anybody has any more ideas. Here are the current parameters as of today:
Ammonia & Nitrite = 0 PPM
Nitrate = ~7.5 PPM
KH = 2
GH = 3
pH = 7.5 (seems stable around the clock right now)
Temperature ~= 25 °C (or 77 °F)
I now also have a video of him darting to the surface for air during the day. It shows him "coughing" or inhaling a few times upon returning to the bottom, before his mouth folds up again and he stops moving or breathing normally:
Ammonia & Nitrite = 0 PPM
Nitrate = ~7.5 PPM
KH = 2
GH = 3
pH = 7.5 (seems stable around the clock right now)
Temperature ~= 25 °C (or 77 °F)
I now also have a video of him darting to the surface for air during the day. It shows him "coughing" or inhaling a few times upon returning to the bottom, before his mouth folds up again and he stops moving or breathing normally:
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I'm assuming the coughing thing is the fish swallowing air. It doesn't lookk too bad from a colour or movement perspective. I would monitor and keep using the nitrate removing stuff and see how it goes over the next few weeks. Poisoning takes a while to get over in all animals so it will be a couple of weeks of good water before you see a change, if nitrates were the problem.
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