UK versus USA

[DMan99]

Not really!!

I think ur concept of britain as an island may not be quite right, it is, dont get me wrong, an island but its not shut off from the rest of europe. Imports from within the eu are tax free so anythin from within the eu can be sold in britain at a low price. fish however, are imported from outside the eu, and so are taxed. this is what makes them so expensive in england, its nothing to do with us being an island and so cut off from the world B)

The country does not increase the taxes because the people are stuck! The taxes arent their to rob us, it is to deter imports from outside the EU. i cant stress this enough, and goods within the eu can be sold, advertised wherever tax free so it does not matter that we live on an island because we can go to 24 other countries for things. Fish are so expensive because of eu legislation, the tax anythin from outside the eu so to deter and help maintain a healthy economy in the eu, it effectively guarantees the survival of small business' from small countries!

I really cant say this enough times, britain being an island does not affect our prices, it is the fact that since 1982 we have been in the EU and so anything imported from outside that is going to be more expensive!

You are saying that taxes are implemented because britain as a country is stuck. the taxes are in all eu countries with regards imports from elsewhere, and forgive me if im wrong, but there are other countries in the EU who are not islands...

dman

 

[DMan99]

but there is a reason for that - the people are stuck on the island, so the country as a whole can increase the taxes and people will continue to buy, whether it is from the EU or not...

That is completely wrong, sorry, but we can buy from anywhere! We are not stuck.

 

[abstract]

Imports from within the eu are tax free so anythin from within the eu can be sold in britain at a low price.

ok, that explains what i was wondering...i know you are not seperated from the other countries, etc...so my question, then, would be why aren't more people breeding and distributing fish within the EU then - it seems like it would be a great money maker to supply large scale amounts of fish for less money.

also, don't you guys have to pay more for all fish merchandise (tanks, filters, etc)? or am i mistaken there? i find it hard to believe that this type of merchandise is also imported from outside of the EU when it could, again, be manufactured from within the EU and cost less overall?

not trying to start an arguement at all and i see your point, i'm just curious about the economics of things sometimes

 

[DMan99]

lol dont worry abt it abstract!!

i love things like this, they jst interest me.

if somebody could start breading successfully and to a high standard within the eu then i should imagine its very profitable!

unfortunately, there are still a lot of wild caught fish, or if not wild caught then fish farmed out in malaysia and other areas etc. Obviously, live bearers and fish that are easier to breed are bred within the EU and cheap etc. For example guppies at my lfs are 49p each which i think is a good price, it is noticable however, lets say for example with clown loach, wild caught and so tend to be expensive!

I have always found hardware, eg tanks, stands etc to be relatively cheap. However, lets taken Juwel for example, a german company that manufactures and distributes tanks all over europe... It is tax free for them to sell their merchandise in the UK but transportation costs have to be taken into consideration, the tanks have to be taken from Germany to England to suppliers who then supply commercial shops. This adds a little bit to the price. Also, in America, the proportion of fishkeepers to total population will probably be very similar to England, however as you have millions more in ur country u have more fishkeepers, this means a higher demand and so products can be mass produced , tax free etc meaning cheaper hardware.

What dya think abstract? (and anyone else lol)

Dman

 

[annka5]

Off topic, and please note I'm not particularly nationalistic, but...AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! England and Britain are not the same!!!!
Thankyou.

 

[DMan99]

Lol yeh very true but it kinda makes no difference in this case. As we're talking about the British Isles and the EU..

Dman

ps, dont worry i dont think ur nationalistic lol

 

[annka5]

I reckon that taxation has a certain amount to do with it. Higher National Insurance, higher petrol levies, etc etc all add to the price, as each person along the way has to recoup the higher costs of (e.g.) employing someone. Thats before you even get to the sales tax on the retail item itself.
I'm deliberately not saying higher taxes are a bad thing or a good thing in this, as otherwise this could end up being a hugely off-topic endless political debate.

Granted, the average US wage is higher than UK, but that doesn't really offset the higher taxes. Also, the US has far higher levels of averge disposable income than the UK, and this has to translate into higher demand for all sorts of consumer goods.

Fish can be commercially reared in the southern US - please feel free to correct me, (am sure everyone will!!!) but I thought that Florida and other sothern US states produced some fish? A commercial breeder in the UK would be less economic as he would spend SO much more on heating etc!

The UK has more problems with exchange rates as we're relatively smaller and not in the Euro, also because govt has decided to protect London-based money markets as opposed to manufacturing in it's monetary policy. This does make imports slightly cheaper, but pushes anyone trading internationally out, incl. fish tank/etc manufactuerers.

You can't compare local familly run shops with Walmart, as Walmart has huge buying power to get things from their suppliers at a very cheap price and rejecting unsold items. Even chains in UK like Pets at Home are not of a comparable size.

UK (and rest of Europe) cannot subsidise agriculture beyond what the EU will allow, the US does whatever it wants - and fish breeding counts as agriculture. Am getting tenuous here, wil stop.

 

[abstract]

Also, in America, the proportion of fishkeepers to total population will probably be very similar to England, however as you have millions more in ur country u have more fishkeepers, this means a higher demand and so products can be mass produced , tax free etc meaning cheaper hardware.

now THATS the part i was missing out on...i figured the ratio must be fairly equal, but never took into consideration the total number of individuals in the different countries )

Off topic, and please note I'm not particularly nationalistic, but...AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! England and Britain are not the same!!!!
Thankyou.

annka5: fair enough, but you could at least explain to us WHY...i consider myself a worldly individual and cannot stand when others are quick to critique (or criticize) without giving a coherent explanation as to why...

EDIT: granted, i am being a stupid american, but that's all i know, lol

 

[cometcattle]

Fish can be commercially reared in the southern US - please feel free to correct me, (am sure everyone will!!!) but I thought that Florida and other southern US states produced some fish? A commercial breeder in the UK would be less economic as he would spend SO much more on heating etc!

You are correct in saying many fish in the US are bred in our warmer, Southern states. One of my favorite LFS gets a Florida shipment and an Asian shipment each week. I would assume his Florida breeder is also his source or importer of his wild-caught Central and South American fish.

Good point, annka5.

 

[DMan99]

Good points everyone!

Annka5, spot on lol.
Cometcattle, are the fish from the asian import generally more expensive than the ones that come from Florida?
Abstract, dont worry abt it, this has been fun! lol

dman99

 

[pica_nuttalli]

States in the Southeastern US are warm and humid. There's also an abundance of freshwater lakes and rivers throughout the region. As a whole, the Southeast also has lower prices, taxes, etc. I know Alabama has some of the lowest property (land) taxes in the entire US. The Southeast is also provided most of its electricity at a significantly lower cost than in comparison to the rest of the US thanks to programs implemented after WWII to encourage development in the region. In short, the only thing preventing a small army of tropical fish breeders is the even further ability of the Asian fisheries to breed fish cheap and easy (we're talking ponds here). EDIT: Since the Asian farms can breed on such a larger and less expensive scale, I imagine the Asian imports are either equally priced or cheaper.

Coldwater/food fish are, however, becoming more commonly bred in ponds in Alabama. An interesting article I read somewhere said that some farmers in Alabama have tapped into an underground saltwater reservoir and are attempting to breed prawns in inland ponds! The agriculture department at my university has quite a number of interesting aquaculture courses that I keep eyeballing (*sigh* I soooo wish I had time to take the fish disease one).

Back to the Outback:
A discussion in Oddballs revealed the fact that Australia has some of the most stringent regluations on importing species of fish due to the specialized nature of the local fauna. Australia has many native species which have edapted to fit very specific niches in their environment. To protect these unique species, foreign introductions are highly limited in an effort to reduce environmental cross-contamination. Thus, a dwarf puffer which would cost $4 in the US costs $400 dollars in Australia because it is illegal to import (not own) this puffer. I'm sure that similar restrictions on more readily bred species are further responsible for the elevated Australian prices.

Australia does have the coolest gobies. The first chance I get, I'm setting up an Australian biotope.

 

[john5748]

i'm suprised that no one has said this yet, unless i missed it, but...

ISLANDS COST MORE

long island and hawaii are two of the most expensive places in the US (in general, not just for fish related things) - is it ironic that britain and australia are also expensive? i think not

It reads like this has turned into an economics thread, if so heres another one:
What about a small island off the UK, namely Northern Ireland?

 

[pica_nuttalli]

i'm suprised that no one has said this yet, unless i missed it, but...

ISLANDS COST MORE

long island and hawaii are two of the most expensive places in the US (in general, not just for fish related things) - is it ironic that britain and australia are also expensive?  i think not

It reads like this has turned into an economics thread, if so heres another one:
What about a small island off the UK, namely Northern Ireland?

erm, as a resident of Northern Ireland, we'd need YOU to tell US. i have to say, i've never seen anything about how N. Ireland's prices compare.

so, like, what's the scoop?

 

[abstract]

yes, unfortunately i do not know the economic status of the entire world...one can't deny on an economics standpoint that islands cost more in general though, am i at least correct to say THAT (whether there are exceptions or not)?

 

[john5748]

erm, as a resident of Northern Ireland, we'd need YOU to tell US. i have to say, i've never seen anything about how N. Ireland's prices compare.

so, like, what's the scoop? [/quote]
Well I can't speak for the whole of Northern Ireland but in my area you have a very limited choice of fish and anything other than guppies, mollies, tetras and other common fish.

If I really want something else I have to travel down to Belfast (Grosvner Tropicals) which is a 160 mile round trip ( a very good lfs which has a family run feel to it and as far as I am aware the only lfs shop in the country that also caters for anyone wishing to marine), or mail order.

I know there is a gaping hole in the market there for another high quality lfs, maybe with more experience??