Turtles and fish

[emg.]

Would appreciate some pointers on my tank. I have 3 RES juvenile about 4 in big, i map turtle smaller than the RES. I have them in a apprx. 70g tank, they have more than enough room to swim and move around as ive observed their space and the way they move around. Ive also filled the bottom with rocks and some driftwood. Recently ive just bought 5 south american cichlids about 2 in ea. So far theyve stood their ground and now swim freely in the tank. Just wondering how the bio load will affect my cichlids. Also im aware the RES will get twuce their size so will prepare for that soon, but my concern now is that the cichlids will be fine and adapt to the water provided. Ps. I do not have an extra tank just the large one.

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[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

I have 3 RES juvenile about 4 in big, i map turtle smaller than the RES.

For those of us not fluent in that lingo, what does that mean?

The fish appear to be African Rift Lake cichlids from Lake Malawi and they require hard alkaline water. I don't normally recommend keeping fish with turtles because turtles eat fish. There's probably too much wood and rock in the tank for the turtles.

Most turtles need somewhere they can come out of the water occasionally and they usually have different light requirements to fish, Turtle tanks regularly have a UV light and fish don't.

Having said this, if you do big (75%) water changes each week, the bioload shouldn't be a big issue, but keeping fish and turtles together doesn't normally work out well.

 

[emg.]

Hi and welcome to the forum


For those of us not fluent in that lingo, what does that mean?

The fish appear to be African Rift Lake cichlids from Lake Malawi and they require hard alkaline water. I don't normally recommend keeping fish with turtles because turtles eat fish. There's probably too much wood and rock in the tank for the turtles.

Most turtles need somewhere they can come out of the water occasionally and they usually have different light requirements to fish, Turtle tanks regularly have a UV light and fish don't.

Having said this, if you do big (75%) water changes each week, the bioload shouldn't be a big issue, but keeping fish and turtles together doesn't normally work out well.

Hello thank you. RES are Red eared sliders, and the other is a mississippi map turtle. They actually cohabit together pretty well. I knew turtles eat fish, the first hour the turtles chased them around but i was told cichlids were agrresive and territorial and theyve shown that to the turtles. I have about 3 lava rocks in there havent checked my water for chemistry levels, ive been pretty irrespobsible but i will soon. The pet shop i bought them from saud they were south american since the african can be much more aggressive and quite large as well. These will max out at 5 in. Like i said theyve established their territory and swim freely and some like to play around the air pump some swim all around the tank frobt and back. So beside hard alkaline water any other suggestion for them? I have a aquatop filter uv sterelizer integrated, ive done 50% water change once its a new tank, but plan to do twice a month. My filter has bio balls with a bag of crushed coral, the regular filter media, and a tray of activated carbon. Thanks alot for taking the time to help [emoji5]

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[Colin_T]

The bag of crushed coral in the filter will help increase the hardness and pH a bit.

You want to do a water change each week, I prefer a 75% water change but a 50% each week should be adequate. Do a gravel clean each time you do a water change.

Feed the fish a bit of plant matter.

 

[emg.]

The bag of crushed coral in the filter will help increase the hardness and pH a bit.

You want to do a water change each week, I prefer a 75% water change but a 50% each week should be adequate. Do a gravel clean each time you do a water change.

Feed the fish a bit of plant matter.

I have some algae waffers for 3 plecos i have in there are those the same as plant matter ? Also when i did water change i always use the turtle water comditioner to stabalize the oh as is directed should i use less conditioner or just as much as always ? Bt thanks i do clean the substrate sand/gravel with a vacuum and this next water change i will rotate all rock and drift wood around

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[Colin_T]

Water conditioner should be used at whatever the directions state to remove chlorine/ chloramine from the tap water.

Algae wafers will be ok for most of the time but the fish eat a bit of algae, which they can graze off the glass and rocks. You can add thin slices of cucumber, zucchini, pumpkin or green leafy vegetables like spinach and silverbeet. Make sure it is clean and free of chemicals and remove it a few hours after adding it to the tank.

 

[emg.]

Water conditioner should be used at whatever the directions state to remove chlorine/ chloramine from the tap water.

Algae wafers will be ok for most of the time but the fish eat a bit of algae, which they can graze off the glass and rocks. You can add thin slices of cucumber, zucchini, pumpkin or green leafy vegetables like spinach and silverbeet. Make sure it is clean and free of chemicals and remove it a few hours after adding it to the tank.

Thanks exactly what i needed to know, i will start adding those to their food from time to time. I feed them the regular cichlid fish food and seems to be finishing quick. For some reason the fish also search in the sand and gravel and sometimes nibble at the turtle waste they dont ingest soon as they figure out what it is but they scavange alot too is it bad ? The fish have been in my tank for a week hopefully i can manage to get thm to adulthood and much longer these are really cool and beautiful fish, so i will probably this weekend build a 5 to 6 in space only for them in the whole bottom tank where they can hide

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[Colin_T]

It's fine for them to scavenge and look for food in the substrate.

 

[emg.]

It's fine for them to scavenge and look for food in the substrate.

Cool thanks the fish seem to be very happy, i will test water chemistry soon to ensure their health amd well being both turtle and fish. [emoji4]

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[Byron]

I will come right to the serious issue...this tank is not suitable for turtles. They absolutely must have an area of "dry" so they can climb completely out of the water and fully dry off. If this is not provided, the turtles will develop slowly softening shells and die, guaranteed.

The "dry" area needs to be completely dry, and usually a sun/heat lamp is placed over this area so the turtle(s) can bask in the warmth and dryness. Not only can they dry out, but the "sun" light provides essential benefits like vitamin D. Believe me, this is critical.

This is why so many of the small RES sold in stores do not live long. I have raised turtles for many years previously, and my last RES bought in the early 1980's is still alive today. Half the tank surface is dry with a lamp over it.

Fish and turtles are not really compatible, depending upon species and tank size. Colin mentioned the turtles eating fish, but fish can nip turtle limbs too.

 

[Byron]

I will come right to the serious issue...this tank is not suitable for turtles. They absolutely must have an area of "dry" so they can climb completely out of the water and fully dry off. If this is not provided, the turtles will develop slowly softening shells and die, guaranteed.

The "dry" area needs to be completely dry, and usually a sun/heat lamp is placed over this area so the turtle(s) can bask in the warmth and dryness. Not only can they dry out, but the "sun" light provides essential benefits like vitamin D. Believe me, this is critical.

This is why so many of the small RES sold in stores do not live long. I have raised turtles for many years previously, and my last RES bought in the early 1980's is still alive today. Half the tank surface is dry with a lamp over it.

Fish and turtles are not really compatible, depending upon species and tank size. Colin mentioned the turtles eating fish, but fish can nip turtle limbs too.

 

[emg.]

I will come right to the serious issue...this tank is not suitable for turtles. They absolutely must have an area of "dry" so they can climb completely out of the water and fully dry off. If this is not provided, the turtles will develop slowly softening shells and die, guaranteed.

The "dry" area needs to be completely dry, and usually a sun/heat lamp is placed over this area so the turtle(s) can bask in the warmth and dryness. Not only can they dry out, but the "sun" light provides essential benefits like vitamin D. Believe me, this is critical.

This is why so many of the small RES sold in stores do not live long. I have raised turtles for many years previously, and my last RES bought in the early 1980's is still alive today. Half the tank surface is dry with a lamp over it.

Fish and turtles are not really compatible, depending upon species and tank size. Colin mentioned the turtles eating fish, but fish can nip turtle limbs too.

Hey thnks for the input, i do have a basking area, idk if you see those pvc pipes i built a platform above the water about 17in x 10 in, ive manually placed all 4 of my turtles 3 sliders about 5 in and 1 mad really juvenile about 4 in amd they all fit there perfectly without havi.g to stack on each other, although ive not seen all 4 on there on their own will they swim alot i aslo tied a driftwood to some thin rope on to the glass with suction cups and it can definelty hold 2 of the bigger RES so this seems to work well cause at night time they like to rest there, also i know of the fish and trutles but i really wanted a mixed aquarium so the fish seller suggested these cichlids small adult size and aggresive so they dont seem stressed by the turtles. Back to the platform i have ubv and uva and heat lamp, the temperature in the basking area read 85° f according to the small reptile thermometer is also well guarded around the corners with plexy glass so they dont jump out.

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[Byron]

Hey thnks for the input, i do have a basking area, idk if you see those pvc pipes i built a platform above the water about 17in x 10 in, ive manually placed all 4 of my turtles 3 sliders about 5 in and 1 mad really juvenile about 4 in amd they all fit there perfectly without havi.g to stack on each other, although ive not seen all 4 on there on their own will they swim alot i aslo tied a driftwood to some thin rope on to the glass with suction cups and it can definelty hold 2 of the bigger RES so this seems to work well cause at night time they like to rest there, also i know of the fish and trutles but i really wanted a mixed aquarium so the fish seller suggested these cichlids small adult size and aggresive so they dont seem stressed by the turtles. Back to the platform i have ubv and uva and heat lamp, the temperature in the basking area read 85° f according to the small reptile thermometer is also well guarded around the corners with plexy glass so they dont jump out.

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OK, the basking area was not obvious to me from the photos.

I still do not recommend mixing fish and turtles, as this tank is not large enough. Turtles do impact water quality in a big way. And there is the aggressive nature of the fish here.

 

[emg.]

OK, the basking area was not obvious to me from the photos.

I still do not recommend mixing fish and turtles, as this tank is not large enough. Turtles do impact water quality in a big way. And there is the aggressive nature of the fish here.

Yea i know. These turtles get really large so when that happens i will mostlikely get them a tub and basically the tank will stay to the fish, i beleive this tank is big enough for the fish when they grow, im hoping i can keep this hobby active and stick to it and not throw in the towel when it gets a little rough lol the water seems clear, it has tanning from the drift wood but the quality seems okay, theres absolutely no algae apparent anywehre in the tank so far I filled the tank for the first time 4 weeks ago so its fairly new for algae to even make an appereance im guessing

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[Byron]

Yea i know. These turtles get really large so when that happens i will mostlikely get them a tub and basically the tank will stay to the fish, i beleive this tank is big enough for the fish when they grow, im hoping i can keep this hobby active and stick to it and not throw in the towel when it gets a little rough lol the water seems clear, it has tanning from the drift wood but the quality seems okay, theres absolutely no algae apparent anywehre in the tank so far I filled the tank for the first time 4 weeks ago so its fairly new for algae to even make an appereance im guessing

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I previously forgot to welcome you to TFF. And that brings up the fact that I have no idea of your level of experience or knowledge on fish matters, but from your questions as you have asked for advice...

There are aspects to water quality that cannot be measured in any way. That is why we fuss over stocking, not only the numbers but the species as different species will impact a tank's biology very differently just because of their habits as much as their size.

The relationship of fish to their aquatic environment is unlike the relationship of any terrestrial animal to its environment. Prevention is the aim, not reactive "cures" when it is too late. Even though there are no visible signs, fish are being affected by all sorts of things. By the time the aquarist recognizes them, the damage has been done and the fish are weaker, which means more disease problems than would otherwise occur and a shorter than normal lifespan.

The bottom line is, if you care about these creatures, the turtles and fish, you will have to make choices. The African rift lake cichlids are not suitable with turtles, and vice versa.

 

[emg.]

I previously forgot to welcome you to TFF. And that brings up the fact that I have no idea of your level of experience or knowledge on fish matters, but from your questions as you have asked for advice...

There are aspects to water quality that cannot be measured in any way. That is why we fuss over stocking, not only the numbers but the species as different species will impact a tank's biology very differently just because of their habits as much as their size.

The relationship of fish to their aquatic environment is unlike the relationship of any terrestrial animal to its environment. Prevention is the aim, not reactive "cures" when it is too late. Even though there are no visible signs, fish are being affected by all sorts of things. By the time the aquarist recognizes them, the damage has been done and the fish are weaker, which means more disease problems than would otherwise occur and a shorter than normal lifespan.

The bottom line is, if you care about these creatures, the turtles and fish, you will have to make choices. The African rift lake cichlids are not suitable with turtles, and vice versa.

Hey thanks alot, that's a really good advice im a newbee on the knowlegde of marine and land life such as these 2, i read some documents and such but none really provide a much more informative manner, most articles just mention on levels for turtle, ammonia levels nitrates and nitrites, which overall is the same byology for fish from what i undrstand, expcept for some pointers that they require individual and different number. Ive seen some youtubers have both cichlids and turtles which im guessing their water chemistry is.more to accomodate the cichlids but they seemed healthy and happy, maybe is that they are adult so they can adapt better not to sure ?

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