Treating Ich And Parasites

[P&J]

Last night I was suspicious that my 2 platies might have ich. This evening, the evidence was much clearer and I added Coppersafe to the tank per the instructions on the bottle. Also, the fish have occasionally had white poo, which I gather from other threads on here could be a sign of parasites. Is it possible, though, that the white poo is simply from not eating? I have been feeding sparingly as I battle ammonia and nitrite, and directly after feedings the poo is usually an acceptable color.

My question: Would it be wise to feed some anti-parasite medicated food? The package says it can be used for routine prevention or for treatment, so it seems that definite diagnosis is not required. My other concern, however, is using it at the same time I am treating for ich.

What do the experts think? Thanks!

-P

 

[Mikaila31]

I'm guessing that the food is by Jungle, if so then it is OK to use it with the coppersafe. Also do you know what cycling is and why your tank has ammonia and nitrites?

 

[P&J]

Thanks for the reply; it is by Jungle.

As for the cycling and ammonia/nitrites, it seems I have failed at fishless cycling, so I have been making frequent water changes and have cut down on feeding. I have been seeing some nitrates as well, which I would see as a positive thing, but they could be remaining from the fishless cycle (attempt).

-P

 

[Mikaila31]

Getting some mature filter media from a already cycled tank would help a lot. You can sometimes get this from your LPS or any friends/ family that have a aquarium. There are also members on here that will donate some.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi P&J,

I assume from your posts that you have a test kit. My advice is this

1) Perform as many water changes as it takes to bring ammonia and nitrite to below 0.25ppm. Ignore nitrate for now.

2) Continue with whitespot medication.

3) Keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm. If either goes above 0.25, more water changes.

It sounds like the ammonia and nitrite are probably the cause of the whitespot, and this issue must be addressed. Otherwise, you could treat the whitespot and it would come right back again.

Good luck and if you're not sure, just ask.

BTT

 

[P&J]

Thanks to both of you! BTT, I've been doing those exact steps for a little while now, so I'm glad to see them validated

Do you happen to know about how long it should be before I see the ich going away?

Or how long until the ammonia and nitrite settles down? All I have are 2 platies in a 20gal.

-P

 

[Chrispixx]

Battling ich while cycling is a pain. Meaning that you have to keep doing water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down which will dilute the meds. Luckily your using coppersafe which is relatively cheap and can be added to the replacement water which is the way to go. Sounds like your going in the right direction.

You can turn the heater up to 29C or 84 deg. which will speed up the ich life cycle and make the disease progress faster. The higher temp will speed up the cycle as Well. The medicated food is a good option also.

 

[stella the fella]

keep treating for white spot but please note that white spot can remain dormant in the substrate and ornaments etc. i think that you are supposed to keep treating for white spot for a couple of days after you think you have gotten rid of it, i think treatment takes about 2 weeks. i failed to do this at first and it reared its ugly head again. white spot cannot cope with 85 degrees. if you do raise the temperature do it slowly. raising the temperature can also lower oxygen levels in the water. if your fish are going mad at the top of the tank you may need to adjust your pump to compensate. hope some of this helps.

 

[rabbut]

keep treating for white spot but please note that white spot can remain dormant in the substrate and ornaments etc. i think that you are supposed to keep treating for white spot for a couple of days after you think you have gotten rid of it, i think treatment takes about 2 weeks. i failed to do this at first and it reared its ugly head again. white spot cannot cope with 85 degrees. if you do raise the temperature do it slowly. raising the temperature can also lower oxygen levels in the water. if your fish are going mad at the top of the tank you may need to adjust your pump to compensate. hope some of this helps.

Although all good points, there is one that I dissagree with. There have been many studies of ICH, and none have found a dormant period. Most scientists that have worked with the desease have theorised that ICH resurfaces, as not all of the desease was removed from the fish after the last round of treatment, and thus a few almost un-noticable spots remain on one or two fish. The fishes immune system is able to keep the desease at bay at these levels, but once their immune system is compromised, by poor water quality for example, the desease quickly takes hold again. As Stella says, you should continue treatment after all noticable sysmpoms are gone, to ensure all traces of the desease are irradicated, preventing it from making a come-back.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[MHunt]

You've got a alot happening in your tank at the moment and you need to prioritise to be able to tackle them properly.

Personally I'd not do as many water changes to let the cycle run it's course. If you're getting nitrite then you're in the middle of it and not too far from the end. I know it's harder on the fish, but it will be better for the long term health of the tank to get this out of the way now. At the same time finish the course of ICH treatment to completely clear it from your tank. Raise the temp to about 28 degrees and increase the aeration to make sure there is enough oxygen in the tank as both the higher temp and the meds reduce the amount of available oxygen for the fish. What are the directions for the ICH treatment you're using? it's not one i'm familiar with so I guess you're not from the UK.

Finally when you're done cycling and treating the ICH you can concentrate on the parasites as rather than being a tank problem, are specific to the fish which have them and platy's are more susceptible for some reason anyway.

 

[backtotropical]

Personally I'd not do as many water changes to let the cycle run it's course. If you're getting nitrite then you're in the middle of it and not too far from the end. I know it's harder on the fish, but it will be better for the long term health of the tank to get this out of the way now.

If you want to kill the fish rather than keep them, this is definitely the advice to follow.

Finally when you're done cycling and treating the ICH you can concentrate on the parasites as rather than being a tank problem, are specific to the fish which have them and platy's are more susceptible for some reason anyway.

Good idea in theory, but in practice there probably wont be any fish left to treat if frequent water changes aren't performed to keep ammonia and nitrite to a minimum. As i said previously, the ammonia and nitrite levels are the most probable cause of the whitespot, and as such must be minimised if the fish are to have any chance.

Basically, there are 2 ways to do this P&J. MHunt's method which will probably kill all your fish and you can start again, or the way everyone else has suggested which will hopefully help your fish to a full recovery.

Sorry MHunt, i mean no offence, but exposing the fish to high levels of ammonia and nitrite to get the filter cycled quicker is just plain bad advice and bad practice. For me, fishkeeping is about trying to keep the fish alive and healthy.

 

[P&J]

Thanks for all the replies, it makes me feel more confident that I am heading in the right direction!

Is it normal to see the ich getting worse before it gets better? I read the post about the lifecycle of the parasite, so it seems like this is to be expected.

To answer one of the questions above, I am using Coppersafe, which is added to the tank once and claims to treat for up to a month. Hopefully, this will be equivalent to the suggestion to continue treatment after the symptoms are gone. (I have been adding it to my replacement water as I make changes, too.)

-P

 

[rabbut]

Thanks for all the replies, it makes me feel more confident that I am heading in the right direction!

Is it normal to see the ich getting worse before it gets better? I read the post about the lifecycle of the parasite, so it seems like this is to be expected.

To answer one of the questions above, I am using Coppersafe, which is added to the tank once and claims to treat for up to a month. Hopefully, this will be equivalent to the suggestion to continue treatment after the symptoms are gone. (I have been adding it to my replacement water as I make changes, too.)

-P

ICH should not get worse before getting better. All meds kill ICH in its free swimming state, before re-attaching itself to a host fish. This means that no further spots should appear in the fish, but the existing ones should slowly vanish. Yes, leaving the copper cure for a month after dosing will be the equivilant of continuing treatment, as the copper will remain in the tank untill waterchanges dilute it back down to a neglegable value

HTH
Rabbut

 

[P&J]

Update: Not much progress, as I still have spots on my fish and ammonia and nitrite in the water On the plus side, the fish are still swimming about, although they often rest on the bottom, and they are eating.

Rabbut: Thanks for all your help. When I guessed that the ich might get worse before it got better, I meant that I expected the existing spots to get more pronounced, as the parasite develops and prepares to drop off. I haven't seen an increase in spots, but they haven't been going away either. I have my temp up to 80F, which is higher than the range I heard for platies, but I want to keep the parasite moving out. Should I go higher?

-P

 

[backtotropical]

Hi again P&J,

I wouldn't go higher than 80F. The coppere based medication restricts the fish's ability to take oxygen from the water and the warmer water has less saturation of oxygen anyway. There is a fine line between killing the parasite and suffocating your fish. Make sure you have lots of surface movement to oxygenate the water as much as possible.

If you're not seeing any improvement, i suggest using activated carbon in your filter for 12 hrs to remove the existing meds and then using Waterlife Protozin.

Hope it goes well, good luck.

BTT