Anglian water let's you put your postcode in and you can then see exactly how hard the water is. I just tried it for my parents' address, which is in North Norfolk and it gives the attached info. Germans as a unit is useful if you can get it.
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CaptainBarnicles
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Hello matey, I'm sorry to say you'll not find much that will live in our liquid granite out the tap, especially so in such a small tank
So you do have hard water which is also bad for neon tetras. When soft water fish are kept in hard water they develop calcium deposits in their kidneys which significantly reduces their life expectancy.
However, endlers would be suitable, but only males. Females grow bigger, are plain grey and would have a lot of fry. Males are tiny jewels of fish and most fish stores will sell at least one different colour variety.
However, endlers would be suitable, but only males. Females grow bigger, are plain grey and would have a lot of fry. Males are tiny jewels of fish and most fish stores will sell at least one different colour variety.
Steve1969
New Member
Well Muddy I really appreciate that,the advice is fantastic thankyou,I’m not starting with it yet until I’ve learned a bit more lolI have a 15 gallon tank (56 liters). I made the mistake of paying little attention to it after awhile, thinking I had it going great (I did, but didn't realize how fast things can deteriorate). Because of the small size, I have to pay a lot more attention to it than tanks I've had in the past. The less water, the more easily drastic changes can occur and the faster it can negatively affect the plants and fish.
Doesn't mean you can't do it. It just takes more attention and effort.
I haven't done a tank that small, but it's not that uncommon. You might do well to look for info from folks already keeping small tanks and take comments from the general populous with a big grain of salt.
I've kept fish for years, but I always did it the same way as I did when I started (when I was 12- in the 70s). When I started back up, I did a lot of research and suddenly found I was doing everything wrong. More scrupulous reading showed I was doing SOME things wrong and that there is a lot of myth mixed with opinion mixed with several right ways to do things out there. I like the articles written by David Bogert- he cites research (some others, some his own) and calls out clearly what is his opinion vs what is evidence based fact.
The bottom line, though, in my experience, is that keeping an aquarium is not nearly as hard as the TONS and TONS of information out there would make it seem.
When I started, I knew absolutely nothing but what my neighbor (who gave me the tank) and what the pet store told me and I had years of fun doing it. Now, there's tons of info to ensure I do it right, but one doesn't have to go too far down the rabbit hole of data to have a healthy aquarium with healthy fish/shrimp/whatever.
- set up a filter
- cycle the tank
- put in easy plants
- don't feed too much (I know I feed too much, it's hard for ME not to)
- change the water regularly (more if you feed too much
)
All the best and welcome to the fun!!!
Steve1969
New Member
Thankyou for that knowledge bud.it’s an option that’s logged in,I appreciate it!! I’m sat here thinking I’m gonna get a bigger tank to have more scope,it’s already a challenge with the hard water,let alone with a small tank,it’s a knowledgable site,I like it.
Agreed with most, but please, no to guppies! Especially in a small tank for a complete beginner, since everywhere advises male/female ratios, they get a female or two then the tiny tank is full to bursting in no time! Endlers could work if the person stuck to male only though.
@Wills has been doing a lot of reading up on fish that actually live in and can tolerate much harder water than usually assumed and recommended. Connecting all three of you might be helpful!
But since OP is considering a larger tank, that could open up some options! Rainbowfish, psuedomuglis, cichlids, livebearers... maybe shell dwellers too? There are even some corydoras that can live in pretty hard water, like bronzes and Sterbai. I don't know if your water is hard enough to be too hard for them, would need numbers, but since my GH is 253ppm, NC researched and gave me a list of cories with harder water ranges I can dig out if we can get GH numbers for both of your areas.
Endlers or a single betta were my first thoughts too, but the hard water rules out the betta.
Galaxy and emerald rasbora come from hard water, and might work in a small tank... neocaridina shrimp can also work in hard water, and would suit the tank size. But even better if OP is considering finding a larger tank to open up his options!
That's wonderful! While having hard water does limit your options (I'm in the same boat!) a larger tank would definitely give you a lot more scope. Keep the 25L though if you have space, it would be very useful to use as a quarantine/hospital tank for when you buy new fish to add to your larger tank once it's stocked, and to separate and medicate a fish if it falls ill. It's much cheaper to medicate a 25L tank than a 240L tank!
Before you buy it though, have a look at the species of fish that have been suggested here. See what appeals to you, and what sort of size tank you'd need in order to keep them. It's much easier to choose the fish first, then figure out whether you can accommodate the tank size and water parameters they need, than it is to buy a tank, only to find out it won't work for the fish you want.
If you fall in love with cichlids for instance, you're going to need to find space for a reasonably large tank, but if properly set up and stocked, managing a larger tank really is easier than maintaining a tiny cube. Some examples of stunning aquariums and fish that can work in hard water, with a larger tank.
These next two photos are cichlid tanks. Cichlids eat plants and need rockwork, they're also territorial, so would need to read up a lot on them before stocking, but we luckily have experienced and knowledgeable people here who can help guide you through if you decide African or South American cichlids are what you'd love to have:
Livebearers are an option, depending on tank size and what other fish you want to keep. Endlers Livebearer males come in an amazing variety of colours and fin shapes. These are only a few examples:
This is why Endler's were mentioned originally by a few people when thinking about the tank size you have. They're tiny jewels of fish, and like hard water, so you can have a few and scape even a nano tank to be lovely, well planted and scaped, with some really pretty fish that won't mind the small tank size!
Stick to males only for now if you do go for livebearers since any female will prolifically produce tons of fry, and you'll be overloaded and stuck with way more fish than you can handle very quickly, with more batches of fry appearing every month from every adult female. And many shops won't take the babies either. It's a headache even for experienced keepers who have a shop to take the babies to, since you have to raise them to a good size first, and you quickly end up with half a dozen small tanks trying to separate and accommodate them all. Males have much better colouring than the females anyway!
Or, if you go for a larger tank, you have more options in livebearers, like Endlers, Guppies, Mollies, platies, swordtails, and potentially some corydoras, depending on your exact water hardness and the species of cory. So you can have a hard water community tank, it just takes a bit more planning and research. But if you like live plants as well, you can have a stunning community tank or livebearer tank, like the one below!
Mollies and platies also have a wide range of colours available. Just a few examples.
Mollies:
Platies (I used to keep some blues, they were gorgeous in a heavily planted tank with those shimmering blues against the green plants under the tank lights!)
For rainbowfish I think a video shows it better! This is a gorgeous rainbowfish aquarium, and they're a hard water fish too.
It's great that you're doing the research and coming here for advice. While hard water does rule out a lot of options, it doesn't mean you can't have a stunning tank and beautiful fish! There are some really lovely options if you're able to get a larger tank, and there are lots available second hand all the time. Welcome to the forum and the hobby!
Hello. This post may get lost in all the activity, but Guppies could work quite well in a smaller tank. You would just need to keep the tank water a bit cooler. I keep my Guppy tanks in the 70 degree range and the reproduction is considerably less than it would be in warmer water. Actually, the water temperature could go down to the mid 60 degree range. The fish are healthy and active in the cooler water and actually live longer lives. Following a sensible feeding schedule also helps control reproduction. Even my much larger Guppy tanks aren't overcrowded.
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Steve1969
New Member
Firstly thankyou for taking the time and effort to reply in such depth,out of all of the options that have been put to me,I’m liking the live bearer options,a friend of mine who used to live round the corner from me years ago used to keep mollies and kissing guami’s (not sure if that’s the proper name) and the tank looked fantastic.so thinking livebearer fish,what is the minimum size tank in which they will thrive?space is a bit of an issue for me as I live in a flat,but where there’s a will there’s a wayAgreed with most, but please, no to guppies! Especially in a small tank for a complete beginner, since everywhere advises male/female ratios, they get a female or two then the tiny tank is full to bursting in no time! Endlers could work if the person stuck to male only though.
@Wills has been doing a lot of reading up on fish that actually live in and can tolerate much harder water than usually assumed and recommended. Connecting all three of you might be helpful!
But since OP is considering a larger tank, that could open up some options! Rainbowfish, psuedomuglis, cichlids, livebearers... maybe shell dwellers too? There are even some corydoras that can live in pretty hard water, like bronzes and Sterbai. I don't know if your water is hard enough to be too hard for them, would need numbers, but since my GH is 253ppm, NC researched and gave me a list of cories with harder water ranges I can dig out if we can get GH numbers for both of your areas.
Endlers or a single betta were my first thoughts too, but the hard water rules out the betta.
Galaxy and emerald rasbora come from hard water, and might work in a small tank... neocaridina shrimp can also work in hard water, and would suit the tank size. But even better if OP is considering finding a larger tank to open up his options!
That's wonderful! While having hard water does limit your options (I'm in the same boat!) a larger tank would definitely give you a lot more scope. Keep the 25L though if you have space, it would be very useful to use as a quarantine/hospital tank for when you buy new fish to add to your larger tank once it's stocked, and to separate and medicate a fish if it falls ill. It's much cheaper to medicate a 25L tank than a 240L tank!
Before you buy it though, have a look at the species of fish that have been suggested here. See what appeals to you, and what sort of size tank you'd need in order to keep them. It's much easier to choose the fish first, then figure out whether you can accommodate the tank size and water parameters they need, than it is to buy a tank, only to find out it won't work for the fish you want.
If you fall in love with cichlids for instance, you're going to need to find space for a reasonably large tank, but if properly set up and stocked, managing a larger tank really is easier than maintaining a tiny cube. Some examples of stunning aquariums and fish that can work in hard water, with a larger tank.
These next two photos are cichlid tanks. Cichlids eat plants and need rockwork, they're also territorial, so would need to read up a lot on them before stocking, but we luckily have experienced and knowledgeable people here who can help guide you through if you decide African or South American cichlids are what you'd love to have:
View attachment 330417View attachment 330418
Livebearers are an option, depending on tank size and what other fish you want to keep. Endlers Livebearer males come in an amazing variety of colours and fin shapes. These are only a few examples:
View attachment 330420View attachment 330421
This is why Endler's were mentioned originally by a few people when thinking about the tank size you have. They're tiny jewels of fish, and like hard water, so you can have a few and scape even a nano tank to be lovely, well planted and scaped, with some really pretty fish that won't mind the small tank size!
Stick to males only for now if you do go for livebearers since any female will prolifically produce tons of fry, and you'll be overloaded and stuck with way more fish than you can handle very quickly, with more batches of fry appearing every month from every adult female. And many shops won't take the babies either. It's a headache even for experienced keepers who have a shop to take the babies to, since you have to raise them to a good size first, and you quickly end up with half a dozen small tanks trying to separate and accommodate them all. Males have much better colouring than the females anyway!
View attachment 330422
Or, if you go for a larger tank, you have more options in livebearers, like Endlers, Guppies, Mollies, platies, swordtails, and potentially some corydoras, depending on your exact water hardness and the species of cory. So you can have a hard water community tank, it just takes a bit more planning and research. But if you like live plants as well, you can have a stunning community tank or livebearer tank, like the one below!
View attachment 330423
Mollies and platies also have a wide range of colours available. Just a few examples.
Mollies:
View attachment 330424
Platies (I used to keep some blues, they were gorgeous in a heavily planted tank with those shimmering blues against the green plants under the tank lights!)
View attachment 330425
For rainbowfish I think a video shows it better! This is a gorgeous rainbowfish aquarium, and they're a hard water fish too.
It's great that you're doing the research and coming here for advice. While hard water does rule out a lot of options, it doesn't mean you can't have a stunning tank and beautiful fish! There are some really lovely options if you're able to get a larger tank, and there are lots available second hand all the time. Welcome to the forum and the hobby!
Reguards
Steve
Steve1969
New Member
I can buy a 75 L tank would that be big enough? It’s a traditional shaped tank,I’m guessing it’s a 4 ft tank
75 litres is unlikely to be 4 feet unless it is very shallow. It's more likely to be in the 60 to 70 cm range (or 24 to 27 inches). This would be suitable for endlers, guppies and platies, but swordtails and mollies need a tank at least 90 cm/3 feet long.
As an aside, kissing gouramis grow way to big for most but the largest tanks. They grow to 8 inches/20 long.
As an aside, kissing gouramis grow way to big for most but the largest tanks. They grow to 8 inches/20 long.
Steve1969
New Member
Thanks Essjay,I’m going to buy a 4ft tank and not include gouramis,at least I now have a direction in which I’m going,I’m going to have livebearer fish,time to do my homework
even this part of the journey is interesting let alone getting to the fish stage.Reguards
Steve
This is a really good point! Livebearers are technically sub-tropical, so they can live at cooler temps than most of the tropical fish we keep. You'll still need a heater to keep the temp pretty constant and because the temps are dropping super low already as winter and the storms are hitting, but being able to keep them at a cooler temp will save on your electricity bill, as well as slowing reproduction! I probably wouldn't go as low as the 60 degree F range long term, but at around 70 degrees F they should be fine.
But bear in mind that temp changes, especially rapid temp changes, can shock and kill a fish, and certainly stress them if it's a big difference too quickly, and the ones you buy from stores are likely being kept in the high 70s range like all the other fish. So when you're at the point you're ready to stock, have your tank just 2-3 cooler than the temp the shop has them at (ask the staff the tank temp, then adjust yours accordingly) and sit the bag to float at the top of the tank for half an hour so the water temps reach the same same temp and the fish adjust to the change. While we're at it, never add water from the fish store in the bag to your tank. Stores tend to be riddled with diseases, and the water is nasty anyway from the fish being in the bag. Once the bag has floated for 30 mins or so, place a net over a bucket and gently pour the fish and bag water over the net, so the fish land in the net and the water goes through into the bucket. Then transfer fish to tank.
Once you're fully stocked (resist the temp to overstock! Especially at first) you can nudge the heater down 2-3 degrees every few days, so the fish gradually adjust to the cooler temps. I'd suggest 71-73 would be cooler than tropical temps and not need a lot of heating, but keep the fish comfortable.
You're so welcome! It's what we're here for, and I remember how it is to first start out in this hobby! There's so much to learn, and it's a steep learning curve, but it's fascinating stuff. I'm always happy to help where I can, but especially for someone
who is wanting to do the research and stock a tank that works well for both you and the fish's welfare! It's the smart way to go about it.
A four foot will be perfect for mollies, platies and guppies, you could potentially keep all three together. Or swordtails even.
Guppies can be okay in a smaller tank, platies I'd recommend a minimum of 30g (bear in mind when we say gallons in this hobby, we mean US gallons, which are not the same as UK gallons!) and since mollies can grow quite large, reach 4-5 inches when a good age and are strong swimmers and very active, I personally wouldn't go below a 4ft tank. They'll do very well in a four ft tank.
Thanks Essjay,I’m going to buy a 4ft tank and not include gouramis,at least I now have a direction in which I’m going,I’m going to have livebearer fish,time to do my homework
Reguards
Steve
It's a really interesting hobby when you dive in, isn't it?
Doing this planning and studying up phase before even having the tank is good, you'll be setting yourself up for success. Last tip - find out what fish stores are available around you. The privately owned stores tend to be better than the big chains, but check out both if you can. Seeing fish in photos and videos isn't the same as seeing them in person. Have a good look at the fish, what they stock (and they will get different stock and colour varieties at different times, and some will order in specific fish and colours for you, if their supplier has them and you'll commit to buying them). Note down the names of any fish you like the look of so you can look them up at home later. See if the fish generally look healthy, and if the store tanks and general environment seem well kept, or if there are a lot of unhealthy looking or dead fish.
Most important rule in fishkeeping - never, ever trust the word of a fish store employee. They often give terrible advice that leads newbies into disaster. If they offer help, just say you're considering what stock you want and your tank isn't ready yet, so you're not buying today, but wanting to browse. Smile and say no thank you if they try to give you advice about products to buy to instant cycle your tank or get pushy about products. There's some good and useful products, but there's also a lot of snake oil in the hobby that causes more problems than it solves.
Touring the stores lets you see these fish in person, and you'll likely fall in love with something and want to buy it, but resist impulse buying fish! This also gives you a chance to assess whether the fish stores close to you are any good, if you think they'll be good places to go when you need fish or anything else. Maybe @CaptainBarnicles knows some good ones to suggest, or any to avoid?
Hello again. Don't be afraid of keeping the tank water in the lower end of your fishes' ideal range. Cooler water holds oxygen better and slows the fishes' metabolism, so they'll actually live a bit longer than in warmer water. I prefer not to heat my fish tanks. I keep my place at 72 degrees in the Winter and 77 in the Summer. Most of my fish tanks are set up in my basement, so the temperature there is a pretty constant 72 degrees. I keep the fish food to a minimum, so the tanks stay very clean between water changes and the fish are more active foraging around the tank for any pieces of food that were missed.
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Steve1969
New Member
Steve1969
New Member
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