I just wanted to voice my disappointment that not only do we appear to have lost some valuable members (the sort of members who attract others to join due to their wealth of experience), but the 'issue' has also been swept under the carpet.
Z,
In that thread, rules were broken. There were some hurtful things written, well outside the scope of what this forum stands for.
So, of course it was removed from public viewing -- that's what mods do, keep the forum in a good state for all users. The thread we are talking about here was unhealthy enough, that it wasn't salvagable -- hence we just removed it.
To be frank, we do this all the time with any thread that isn't salvagable. We delete all the spam threads, too, do you want to keep those around as well?
If you wish to dicuss 'the issue' as you word it, please feel free to do so. The only requirements are that you follow the forum rules as you do so, and in particular each and every person in the thread and the whole forum must be treated with respect.
On the other hand, if this is an attempt to goad details out of us, again we are going to politely decline, per our policy. Again, to be frank about it, I've stated the 'issue' as much as needed. Several members has chosen to no longer be members here. They have their own reasons, and it is not my place or any mod's place to publicly list those. This is to respect their privacy. So long as forum rules are followed, they can come back if they choose to in the future.
we should bend over backwards to encourage to stay
At what cost? How much bending should we do? What if someone is demanding to be able to advertise for free? Or otherwise break our rules? I think that writing something like 'bend over backwards' can lead to a very slippery slope of precedent where any member may think that they can bully the admin and mod staff.
Let me just state it now: We aren't going to do that. Our rules are equal for everybody, and we do our utmost to enforce them equally for everybody (we are only human, so I'm not going to claim that we are perfect in the endeavor). We aren't going to have preferred groups on this forum. We expect everyone to follow all the rules.
And, if you don't wish to follow the rules, you may choose to leave. It really is that simple. We think we have a pretty good set of rules and enforcement of those rules because we have grown quite a good forum. We aren't going to start down the path of giving anyone preferential treatment.
I can not judge for myself who was in the right/wrong.
Lastly, this is quite a murky concept here. You know as well as I that 'right' and 'wrong' are largely functions of persepctive. And if you talk to one person about an incident, you're going to get a very different story from a second person -- about the exact same incident.
So, again, the mods have agreed to a policy of not publicly discussing the specifics of incidents that do not affect the entire forum. As above, this is to respect the privacy of others. And, as a practical point of view, it prevents just one side of a story from coming out. Or, to put it differently, it prevents us from just presenting our 'tyranny' and having people react to it without knowing the entire story. So, the thread was removed because there were rules-breaking in there, and we aren't going to put it back for public inspection.
What this really boils down to, then, is that the site owner, William, has entrusted judgement to the other admin, Tolak, and the other mods. That it is our judgement that nothing in the thread is salvagable to be posted and have any value to the forum. And that it is our judgement that none of the specifics need to be discussed with the entire forum.
I guess I am asking that you trust us.
The above is probably still 'frustrating'. But, I think that is because you are asking to discuss the specifics, to see the thread that started this, and the answer is going to be 'no' every time, for all the reasons I've expanded upon above. Lastly, so long as we continue to remain respectful, we (the mods) will continue to answer as many questions as we can, so please do not hesitate to ask whatever you want. We'll answer as well as we can in accordance to our rules and principles.
