Too Technical

[anon02]

I am a complete novice, but I would like to have a balanced looking tank with some flourishing plants but without all the alchemy bit

After reading Dave Spencers post on why you should not fishless cycle planted tanks (with some excellent contributions re low tech set ups from SC 1 and others), I was half convinced to get an order in to Java and set up my new tank along lines set out in that and other threads

Then I read the thread on some dosing index and my brain melted, any thoughts I had on having a nice tank with fish and plants banished because I want a hobby not a vocation. I`m sure that many other beginners in my position now have tanks full of plastic plants because of the perceived technicalities of keeping live plants

It would be marvellous (not to mention encouraging), if some of you green fingered guys could get together and produce an informative thread explaining the low tech possibilities using standard issue lighting and off the shelf products to get and keep a tank that looks something like the tanks in some of your signatures

I`m sure it`s possible for me to have a nice looking tank with fish and live plants, and I`m equally as sure that there is the knowledge and experience on this forum that would help me and many others to get it, whilst avoiding the pitfalls and temptation to throw ones arms in the air and "go plastic"

Thanks for taking the time to read this far

 

[SuperColey1]

After reading Dave Spencers post on why you should not fishless cycle planted tanks (with some excellent contributions re low tech set ups from SC 1 and others), I was half convinced to get an order in to Java and set up my new tank along lines set out in that and other threads

Then I read the thread on some dosing index and my brain melted, any thoughts I had on having a nice tank with fish and plants banished because I want a hobby not a vocation. I`m sure that many other beginners in my position now have tanks full of plastic plants because of the perceived technicalities of keeping live plants

Nope the problem is that people don't read anymore they scan. they scan even faster than in the olden days too. Not having a go as it is common of nearly everyone. time is money and very busy busy etc. Is a problem I have too. I rush through everything, miss bits here, typos all over the place but then I get through loads of posts. lol

Many people have plastic plants for many reasons. some are too impatient to learn their way. Some expected instant results. Som e associated things that shouldn't be associated and some cannot seperate a planted system from a non planted system.

In your case it seems to be the association.

You lead in on the low tech element then struggle to get to grips with a fertilisation method. They are 2 seperate things. Low tec is no CO2 (or liquid carbon) and no ferts (or minimal.) If we are starting to look at a fert 'regime' then it will go allied with CO2 addition in most cases because without CO2 the ferts would no to be regimented in their delivery. Much less of a worry.

However a lot of people seem to 'struggle' with these regimes instructions where I cannot see why. I don't know if it is again due to scanning or if it the 70% of barble that they read in the recipe.

For example on the EI method it is very simple. Mix up the ingredients stated into the amount of water stated for your macro and micro mix. Go down to the list that has tank volumes and take the dosing suggested for your size tank.

So 7 days is macros, micros, macros, micros, macros, micros, 50% water change.

Thats it Not sure where people struggle with this. Most methods are similar. Take your time to read and forget all the barble. Just get the recipe, Get the instruction and get the dosing. Job done.

It would be marvellous (not to mention encouraging), if some of you green fingered guys could get together and produce an informative thread explaining the low tech possibilities using standard issue lighting and off the shelf products to get and keep a tank that looks something like the tanks in some of your signatures

Possibilities is not a good idea really. Possibilities are endless and of course maybe always out of reach but still a possibilities. Reality is different

For a low tech tank setup. Good substrate, Plenty of plants, Plenty of fish, Good filtration/circulation, No water changes, job done.

You may still add a little KNO3 or KH2PO4 every noe and again dependent on the fishload but we are talking monthly/bi-monthly

We won't explain this as there is already a duperb article here. Well worth setting aside a few hours and reading (not scanning)
http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/433-Non-CO2-methods

I`m sure it`s possible for me to have a nice looking tank with fish and live plants, and I`m equally as sure that there is the knowledge and experience on this forum that would help me and many others to get it, whilst avoiding the pitfalls and temptation to throw ones arms in the air and "go plastic"

Indeed there ar emany of us here who can help and we do try. As long as the user is prepared to let go of inhibitions then many things can be achieved. On the other side it can also mean trusting the advice to improve equipment that others may say is already more than enough.

The thread above wil help.

Also Please don't take offence at me for talking about modern people and their important time. I am very presumptuous, I generalise far too much and I am indeed a grumpy old man in a 35 year old body

AC

 

[SDWalters]

Now don't get me wrong I am NOT a planted tank expert by any means, just a enthusiastic fish keeper who has persevered and through trial and error found a process which is not high tech but seems to be working!

So here are my two pennies:

1) Get yourself some high quality plant substrate - Thegreenmachineonline stock a fantastic range of ADA substrates (these are not cheap) but as you will only add once are well worth paying for...... You will want some sort of combo of ADA Power Sand, ADA Aqua Soil (And i personally have Aqua Clay Pebbles, which allow for good circulation of the roots and fine gravel for the look.

2) Plant HEAVILY and certain plants will take very well, others not so good but you will find what works for you

3) buy high quality plants... Again I use Thegreenmachineonline and have bought a few of the Tropica XL Plants as well as other smaller plants.

4) Add a daily dose of EasyCarbo

That is all I have done and my plants have experienced some serious growth and have had no algae problems! some of the more needy plants that require high light won't work but there are plenty of undemanding plants that would give u what u want!


Experts feel free to shoot me down

 

[anon02]

SC 1, no offence taken and thanks for the link

 

[SuperColey1]

Experts feel free to shoot me down

You're cheating. You're using C additive to get your results and that in turn means you need extra nutrient and means the substrate you are using works for your system well.

If the OP (and this isn't clear yet) wants to go a method route then yours is fine yet a little expensive for my liking.

If the OP wants to get to 'zero' cost and 'zero maintenance (in relative terms, minimal is closer to the truth but by that I mean barely half an hour a week if that) then the substrate needs to be one which will rot. It needs to be one that will produce CO2 from it's decomposition.

I also hear a lot about buying quality plants. Tropica are good, Aquafleur are good but thats not to say you have to buy quality. Cheapo brands die and grow the same as expensive brands do.

Quantity can be something to consider if you see difference and also to ensure the plants arrive alive. However this is not price this is finding a decent source.

ALL of my plants are either originally from a batch I bought from Malaysia in September 2007 Any others are direct descendents from those original plants. Cost me £66 (inc shipping) to do a 125Ltr and in the early days looked pretty empty but they have proved theirselves 10x over

£66 doesn't buy many pots.

I will admit though I bought 3 pots of Tropica Crypt Parva in 2008. there were no leaves just dead stems sticking out of the pots. The shop owner thought I was joking when I asked how much and hes said 50p each probably thinking I would walk away. These plants are very much flourishing these days.

At the end of the day SD there are many ways to skin a cat and each way may yield a different type of result. In this game it is a case of deciding your target and then working the method to suit.

AC

 

[anon02]

SDW,
It sounds as if you have done what I am tempted to do, but if I experimented to see what would grow with the tank in such a prominent position in the house, and knowing how much cajoling and coercion it took to get the wife to agree to have a tank in the first place, ("failure is not an option" as they say), I would be on frisbee dinners for the rest of my natural LOL

 

[anon02]

"If the OP wants to get to 'zero' cost and 'zero maintenance (in relative terms, minimal is closer to the truth but by that I mean barely half an hour a week if that)"

The cost in time and money is not a consideration, I have sufficient of both, it is more a disinclination to get as deeply involved as you obviously are, if I were to draw a comparison I would say that I like to watch tv but I could only give a cursory explanation of how the pictures got onto the screen

Like so many things in life, if only I`d started earlier, but I`m at a time in my life where I need to prioritise

 

[SDWalters]

"If the OP wants to get to 'zero' cost and 'zero maintenance (in relative terms, minimal is closer to the truth but by that I mean barely half an hour a week if that)"

The cost in time and money is not a consideration, I have sufficient of both, it is more a disinclination to get as deeply involved as you obviously are, if I were to draw a comparison I would say that I like to watch tv but I could only give a cursory explanation of how the pictures got onto the screen

Like so many things in life, if only I`d started earlier, but I`m at a time in my life where I need to prioritise

I would honestly go down a similar route to what I explained..... If you want guarenteed success with the plants do a bit of research online into the plants that are labelled as needing low co2 and low light and I am sure they will flourish! I have a 5ft tank and does 10ml of easycarbo daily and works out to buying a £10 bottle every 1 1/2 months hardly super expensive!!! The Substrate I mentioned will also get your tank cycling as it leaches Ammonia so as well as getting your plants healthy and growing would cycle your tank ready for adding fish!


I like you cannot get as deep into the planted side as it sound very complicated and find my cheat way works

 

[BigIan]

Plant selection also plays a large role in what set up I have recentley re-setup my tank, and because i don`t have the time to devote to a hightec planted tank, i have chosen low light low maintenance plants, i have 3 species of cryptocoriene, an unknown species of amazon sword, and hygrophillia pollysperma. (sorry for the spellings)
I have been dosing a little phosphate after water changes as my plants were showing signs of phosphate defficency and rootpellets all planted in an inert clay based substrate.

My method of running a planted tank is:

1) choose plants wisely according to how much effort/money you want to put in.

2) read up on everything you can about aquatic plants and there needs,

3) let the plants tell you what they need. and give it to them.


and my method seems to work for me.

 

[anon02]

"We won't explain this as there is already a duperb article here. Well worth setting aside a few hours and reading (not scanning)
http/www.barrrepor...Non-CO2-methods"

I have scanned (until I have the time to give my undivided attention)the Barr report as you suggested

I will research some of the chemical symbols so that I have a better idea what he is talking about

I have 2 questions ... do you have a link to the Halsted document hat he refers to ... and how do I calculate w/gal, is it a straight equation of total wattage of all my tubes divded by the volume of my tank in imp gallons ?

Thanks in advance

Edit ... I have had to use inverted commas, the italic wont work

 

[SuperColey1]

Sorry SD, just read my earlier post and I sound like I'm having a go there. Wasn't as I meant it. actualy trying to be quite jovial calling you a cheat. Bad how typing sometimes comes out different. lol

Which chemical symbols are they? I only now a few. lol

Basically Tom's guide there is a Walstad setup improved a little in that he improves the substrate to work really really well and actively and then adds a little of what will be missing namely KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) and KH2PO4 (Potassium Phosphate.)

Othere chemicals he may refer to are NO2,3,4. Forget these he is basically talking about ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Your filter will deal with that.

Walstad method:
http/theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method


[quote Big Ian]inert clay based substrate.[/quote]
If it is indeed clay based it may have been inert when you bought it but it will have quickly become very nutritious. Clay is High CEC and therefore soaks up nutrients like a sponge. The plants can then freely get at them whenever they want. I use a clay based substrate for this very reason

So if it is clay based it has been helping you without your knowledge and did you say you've been putting root tabs into it as well

Tropica and ADA AS are both clay based only difference being the ADA ones is full of nutrient when you get it and does leech ammonia for a while. I use Tropica.

w/gall - wattage divided by US gallons.

basically he means a single full length T5HO tube or 2 x T8 full length as the maximum.

AC

 

[anon02]

The Substrate I mentioned will also get your tank cycling as it leaches Ammonia so as well as getting your plants healthy and growing would cycle your tank ready for adding fish!

The substrate will be 2mm gravel, I`m almost sure that any chemical shortages can be supplemented, maybe I`ll have to change my mind after reading and researching some more, but for now I`m thinking that there must be some plants that will grow successfully in gravel

 

[anon02]

"w/gall - wattage divided by US gallons."

I have a total of 85 w over a 55 US gallon tank so 1.6 w / gal ?

So this would fit into the parameters detailed in the report

 

[SDWalters]

Sorry SD, just read my earlier post and I sound like I'm having a go there. Wasn't as I meant it. actualy trying to be quite jovial calling you a cheat. Bad how typing sometimes comes out different. lol

LoL I was joining in

 

[UNV_Rasta]

nice thread