To Much Light

[Themuleous]

Hi All,

Well having properly redone my nano, I was fully expecting a nice HC carpet in the three weeks its been running. However, I've ended up with a complete mess and now the HC looks shocking once again. Since seeing Zig's HC carpet in his tank and knowing that he used the cheapo bulbs (as I sent him them!), I'm wondering if upgrading to 2x24w T5 lamps was such a good idea after all? So my questions

Is it possible to have to much light?

I am now thinking that the increased watts together with increased penetration from the T5's in such a short tank (8" tall) is the reason my HC is dieing? I.e. it cant cope with the massive amount of light? Having tested Im running around 4ppm PO4 and 40ppm NO3, no fish to this isn't a problem. CO2 is easily 30ppm if not 40ppm and am using a drop chekcer wtih AE 4dKH water. I add 2ml TPN every other day after the 50% water change. Substrate is EC. All in all I know that plants are getting everything they need!!! but still no growth.

As I said I've seens Zigs HC and wonder if I should swap back to the T8's and save the T5 for when I upgrade my 60lt?

Any thoughts

Sam

EDIT - Apart from a very small amount of BGA there is no algae in the tank, for once!

EDIT - I dont get much pearling either, lots less than when under the T8's, could this apparent slow growth be a 'defence' mechanism of the plants, i.e. they shut dwon in uber high light to stop themselves growing to fast and thus creating problems for themselves?

 

[ryguy]

i know if you have to much light there will be excese algea everywhere but im not and expert but i do think it is possible to have to much light.

 

[Dave Spencer]

Sam,

I floated a small amount of HC in my 120l tank, just to see how it would fair. Needless to say with this tank, it grew like a dream. This was done with a 55W Interpet T5 PC Daylight Plus and Triplus a matter of four or five inches above.

Maybe you should just leave the plant in its pot for a while, to let it recover before it gets pulled apart for planting.

Dave.

 

[Themuleous]

I see your point Dave, however, when I've used HC in the past, I've always pulled it apart and its never minded. Thats whats so add about all this, the only thing different is the lighting, everything else is the same.

Cheers for the thought though Dave

Sam

 

[RadaR]

Must be very annoying for you Sam.
I don't believe you can have too much light so long as you provide enough of the other limiting factors which sounds as though you are.
Maybe they aren't getting enough water current?

 

[DevUK]

No expert here, but maybe its the type of tubes and the light spectrum they emit light in? Perhaps they aren't suited for plants. What tubes are they?

 

[SuperColey1]

Being less knowledgable than you in terms of experience, I guess my 2 penneth wouldn't count for much, but...

The amount of light we supply can never match the sun so I would've thought there was no such thing as too much light.

Maybe there is another factor in there. I have heard that it is a Nitrate abuser, Is the Nitrate being run out by it before next dosing time?

One for the experts I guess but I don't think it can be too much light

Andy

 

[Themuleous]

Thanks for the thoughts guys

fred - current is fine, supplied by my eheim 2211, but worth an ask

Dev - Tubes are 1x arcadia plant pro, 1x D&D midday so they should be ok. My only other thought on the lighting front is that the luminary isn't running the bulbs at full power for whatever reason? But I didn't think it was possible for a bulb to run if it wasn't getting enough electricity, i.e. a 20w bulb won't run if you give it 15w, but than again I’m no electrician.

Andy - The whole sun thing was my reason for buying the T5's in the first place, i.e. I didn’t think you could have too much light. And your right about the HC being a NO3 sponge, but as I said the tank was running at, at least 40ppm when I tested it before a water change the other day.

If its not the light I guess the only thing it could be is the PO4 and NO3 solutions, they are getting on for a year old now, but I wouldn't think NO3 dissolved in water could 'go off' i.e. become a form that the plants can use?

Your right Fred, its massively annoying, especially when I know I can grow HC, just not at the moment for whatever reason! What to have something to enter the PFK comp with!

Thanks people, anyone else got any thoughts?

Sam

 

[SuperColey1]

On the bulb underpowering issue. remember when I was upgrading my fluval lights.

They were 18W but were being powered by a 15W ballast and threfore that was the amount of power they were receiving!.

Maybe the ECJ luminaire has underpowered ballast like the Fluvals and thus the cheap prices they are obviously able to sell them at (although th difference in price between a 3x24W ballast and a 3x18W ballast would be pennies!!!

maybe they are using a single ballast to power all 3, and if it were underpowering this could mean that when you turn the second on it reduces power to the first (briniging the 2 to level power) and the same for 3 so in fact you could have 24W with 1 light and then maybe 2 are takeing 20W each and then for 3 13.33W each or somthing along those lines.

If you have 1 light on, is that tube brighter than when you turn on the second, and then the third?

Just an idea.

Andy

 

[zig]

Sam are there other plants in the tank, and how are they doing?

Are you getting any new growth on the HC at all?

Describe what the HC growth looks like.

 

[George Farmer]

No fish? Then crank up the CO2 to rule that out. HC should pearl like mad.

I also doubt too much light is the issue.

 

[Themuleous]

Zig - sorry I did say Id get a photo up but haven't as yet. Basically the HC is growing very slowly (if at all now), the original leaves are turning brown and there are very few new leaves and what new leaves there are, are very small and not getting any bigger. The stem length is a bit longer, but that's about it. As for other plants there is some mersilea and P.helferi in there as well. The mersilea is growing, but very slowly and the P.helferi is rapidly loosing its leaves.

George - When I re did it the first time I had cranked the CO2 up but the same thing happened but that was with the cheapo osram bulbs (which Zig has now proved work as we can see from his lovely HC carpet). I changed the bulbs anyway, to the plant pro and midday and the same things happened. That's why I suspect the luminary itself might be the issue here.

The only possible other thing would be the substrate, but JamesC has proved the EI and quarts gravel is enough to get HC to carpet.

I really cant see to work this one out!

Sorry to keep on people, I greatly appreciate peoples advice on this one, so thanks

Sam

 

[Dave Spencer]

Sam,

My first attempt at planting my Iwagumi with HC was a 70% failure, with some of the original plants now starting to recover. I am starting to get some new, slow growth from the dead areas, which seems to reflect the problems you are having with yours. The Eleocharis "parvula", on the other hand, is really starting to come along.

I initially thought the problem was my temporary Rotala weeds blocking out too much light, but I couldn`t see why the HC didn`t just go leggy at first, rather than turn brown and die. After all, it was planted in ADA AS with D&D lights. Having read around a little, I am beginning to think my idea of running a lean water column could be the cause. The temporary weeds were pearling and growing like mad and, ultimately sucking the water column dry of K, N and P and micros, totally outcompeting the HC. Apparently, HC is a nitrate sponge, so this could be the reason for my major die off. The small amount of HC I put in my 3.4WPG EI tank grew like a dream.

Try mixing up a new batch of ferts, seeing as yours sounds a little old and tired. Ensure an excess of nitrates that will prevent whatever temporary weeds you are using from outcompeting the HC. This will be my next plan of attack when I replant.

Remember Sam, at the end of the day, it is not our fault. We will always have Thatcher`s Government to blame!

Dave.

P.S. I will be replanting some HC this week, so everything is crossed. If I can`t grow HC planted in ADA AS and an EI water column, illuminated with D&D lights, I think I may as well take up basket weaving.

 

[zig]

Sam I would probably switch back to the T8s and see how things (go) grow, it will be easier to balance the tank this way, and if you still have problems it will be easier to eliminate the cause and you can then rule out once and for all that the T5 lighting setup is causing your problems, which you suspect may be at the root of this.

Probably where I would go from here, totally eliminate the T5 setup once and for all and see how you get on without it, with the T5 setup still going I think its hard to pin down exactly whats going on here, so eliminate that and see what happens.

New batch of ferts probably no harm either, although you do not have algae so you would have to wonder what the problem is.

 

[Themuleous]

Thanks for the support Dave and Peter much appreciated.

I'll sort out some new ferts and keep up the EI to be sure the water column is nice and loaded with them. I think your right Zig, switch back to the T8's (more money!) and then at least I'll know if its the lights or not. Might try the new ferts for a week or so, no point changing two things at once, I'll never know which was causing the problem if I do that.

Oh darn, I hate when things don't work out!

Thanks again, watch this space for updates, I guess we are always living and learning

Sam