To Flush Or Not To Flush

[The Other Lebowski]

I'm at the end of the so-called fish-in(?) cycle, 4 weeks. I'm not into the OCD stuff with testing like Frankenstein. i mean the fish costs 75 cents a pop so how can i justify spending 40 euros on a test kit to save 5. but from what i understand, the fish used in the cycle even if they survive - and they all have - gets damaged beyond repair from all the ammonia and NO2, hence my question is, whether it would be more humane to just flush it down the toilet, or let it live until it dies on its own.

just looking at them, they seem fine, but obviously there's only that much retardation you can recognize by looking at someone.

obviously i prefer looking at a tank full of healthy fish, hence the replacement for a brand new units sounds like an obvious choice, however i kinda feel like these guys, as crippled as they may be, provided a valuable service for me, and i feel like i owe them one.

hence under the circumstances, would the nicer thing be letting them live on (at the risk of suffering)or sending them down the drain?

any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Bluefintuna]

personaly I never flush anything out of my tanks down the drain, all sorts of chemicals in yours and my tank, also if your fish survives the flushing could it live and maybe cause eco probs?

To quickly finish your fish off just net it out put in a paper towel and whack with a piece of wood(priest)then bin it or even better incinerate it.

Nick

 

[JustKia]

1) without a test kit how do you know your tank has cycled? You may not be at the end of what you percieve to be the cycle.
2) price has nothing to do with humanity or morality.
3) without a test kit how are you going to know that your "new units" aren't festering in toxic build up? Like you say you can only see so much damage and these toxins are not particularly visible to the naked eye.
4) water testing has nothing to do with being ocd. One is good husbandry (and doesn't mean you have to test daily, monthly is more than enough in an established and well maintained set up). The other is a medical condition, that really has nothing to do with keeping fish!
5) never flush anything that is alive and preferably don't flush dead fish either. If you want to kill them off do it properly by some form of humane euthanisation and then dispose of by putting in the trash, burying or incinerating.

 

[divegirl]

I'm at the end of the so-called fish-in(?) cycle, 4 weeks. I'm not into the OCD stuff with testing like Frankenstein. i mean the fish costs 75 cents a pop so how can i justify spending 40 euros on a test kit to save 5. but from what i understand, the fish used in the cycle even if they survive - and they all have - gets damaged beyond repair from all the ammonia and NO2, hence my question is, whether it would be more humane to just flush it down the toilet, or let it live until it dies on its own.

just looking at them, they seem fine, but obviously there's only that much retardation you can recognize by looking at someone.

obviously i prefer looking at a tank full of healthy fish, hence the replacement for a brand new units sounds like an obvious choice, however i kinda feel like these guys, as crippled as they may be, provided a valuable service for me, and i feel like i owe them one.

hence under the circumstances, would the nicer thing be letting them live on (at the risk of suffering)or sending them down the drain?

any advice greatly appreciated.

Are you for real?

If and I mean IF you have done your 'fish in cycle' properly how do you know it is complete if you do not have a test kit or have had you water tested at your LFS?
How did you know how many water changes to do per day if you weren't testing the water?
How do you know your tank is now safe for your 'new' fish?

As advised above....no fish should ever be 'flushed' and if the fish in question are looking healthy why in Gods name would you want to kill them just because you expect they are 'retarded'!!!!!!!!!!!

This is just my opinion, but can I suggest you do a lot more research before you move to the next step. The price of a test kit is nothing compared to having a tank full of healthy fish.

Lisa

 

[joncairns]

You should never dispose of fish in this way.You can always take them back to the LFS.They will invariably take them off your hands,but not give you any money for them.

 

[BigC]

So from contents in the above thread & subsequent posts,
Once we finish our cycle with fish we then proceed to to the next stage which is to whack the aforementioned healthy fish on the head, so as we can get some so called nicer ones in.
I didn't know this type of macabre practices went on. I have kept fish all my life, bred showed and transported,
Why utilise fish in such a fashion. Is this just another fast track way of getting to the end goal so something has to suffer
IMHO these (I can only call them selfish)practices are not good for the hobby.
I may be a bit out of touch with today's form of chemical warfare of fishkeeping (meds for this and meds for that)
but fish care was always paramount and I only ever performed euthanasia on a fish with difformaties whereby its quality of life would be severely diminished.
Is all of the above common practice today?
ATB
BigC

 

[LauraFrog]

To be honest mate, I think you need a major reality check. Fish are not ornaments, they are living creatures. You're treating your tank like it's nothing more than something pretty to look at. If you want to be a successful fishkeeper you need to revise your attidude, REAL fast, and start seeing it like a complex biological system. Trying to save a few cents by not getting one of the most essential items of equipment in the hobby (test kit) is the epitome of penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[The Other Lebowski]

personaly I never flush anything out of my tanks down the drain, all sorts of chemicals in yours and my tank, also if your fish survives the flushing could it live and maybe cause eco probs?

To quickly finish your fish off just net it out put in a paper towel and whack with a piece of wood(priest)then bin it or even better incinerate it.

Nick

i value your opinion but it seems somewhat naive. do you have any idea what goes into sewers from pharmaceutical, chemical, food processing and all other kinds of industrial operations? what other people, the fishless ones, flush down? in fact, do you have any idea what's in your colon? i mean common, a bunch of fish, now matter how infested, can't make any difference at all even if it tried.

but i do accept the argument that a whack may be a safer bet.

 

[divegirl]

I think someone is just trying to provoke an arguement here!

 

[Jenste]

I'm at the end of the so-called fish-in(?) cycle, 4 weeks. I'm not into the OCD stuff with testing like Frankenstein. i mean the fish costs 75 cents a pop so how can i justify spending 40 euros on a test kit to save 5. but from what i understand, the fish used in the cycle even if they survive - and they all have - gets damaged beyond repair from all the ammonia and NO2, hence my question is, whether it would be more humane to just flush it down the toilet, or let it live until it dies on its own.

just looking at them, they seem fine, but obviously there's only that much retardation you can recognize by looking at someone.

obviously i prefer looking at a tank full of healthy fish, hence the replacement for a brand new units sounds like an obvious choice, however i kinda feel like these guys, as crippled as they may be, provided a valuable service for me, and i feel like i owe them one.

hence under the circumstances, would the nicer thing be letting them live on (at the risk of suffering)or sending them down the drain?

any advice greatly appreciated.

Did you just wake up one day and was like "hmm I am going to get a tank"
Did you do any research? At all?
Are you a tank owner because you genuinely like fish or you like the appearance of liking fish?

From your post earlier I would suggest you do more research...A fish is still a pet....you would not get a dog with out buying them proper food, and taking them to the vet would you? Hence the same thing with testing your water...you are ensuring a safe and healthy environment for your fish!

 

[BigC]

I think someone is just trying to provoke an arguement here!

Keep it as a debate not an argument, everyone has an opinion
I will monitor this until such time it becomes fruitless.

Regards
BigC

 

[The Other Lebowski]

common now people! i was hopping this wouldn't turn into a PETA rally. 'morality', 'humanity','living creatures'??

i don't intentionally expose my fish to suffering, but at the end of the day they are just a 75 cents a piece living organism just somewhat more evolved than the millions of bacteria i slaughter each i time i wash my hands. i like them, that's why i got them, but really, emotions aside, aren't they really just a little more complex instinct-driven 'ornament' being mentioned above?

regarding the tests: yes you're right, obviously i can't tell if the cycle has been completed. i can only assume it has, going with an average time, fact that the water looks crystal clear, odour-free, and considering the multiple additions of sera nitrivec and JBL's filter starter. (if you think they're placebo prove it).

but all this testing stuff is just so OCD. there were no test kits 20 years ago when i had my tank as a kid, and i don't recall anyone doing any worse than they do today. for 40 euros a piece, being a manufacturer of these things, i would have 100 people 24/7 sitting in fish forums recommending these things. so spare me.

but yes, as I already said, i will not flush the fish, or at least not flush them alive.

maybe i'll just use them to make a fur coat.

 

[divegirl]

I think someone is just trying to provoke an arguement here!

Keep it as a debate not an argument, everyone has an opinion
I will monitor this until such time it becomes fruitless.

Regards
BigC

Fair enough!

OP....Have your read this......

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306

This will explain how to do a 'fish in cycle' properly.

Lisa

Edit: Just read the above post by the OP......I won't post any further comments. As I though we may be dealing with a child I thought I'd try to help....but his/her last post says it all

 

[LauraFrog]

What you need to think about is the native fish in your area... I don't know where you live, but I'd like to bet that you don't know what native species are in your local waterway. Most sewerage treatments do a very good job of filtering out the pharmaceuticals and chemicals that end up flushed down toilets and sinks (because they carry out the level of testing you seem so averse to). However they may not be up there on removing obscure fish viruses. No fish remains should ever be flushed down the toilet, because you don't know where the wastewater is going to end up. Wrap them in paper and put them in the toilet.
Additionally, no fish should EVER be flushed down the toilet alive, because it is a particularly inhumane way to kill a fish (that could be likened to killing a mammal - ie you - by freezing it alive.) Fish can survive for several hours there - in the roaring currents, the dark, the pollution and the cold - before some chemical burns through their slime coating to kill them.

I would also like to point out that you need to be a bit more careful about the comments you make on a public forum - I have a cousin with cerebral palsy whose disability is physical only and she is very upset by the way people constantly assume she is retarded when they see her.

I fail to see how the price of the fish has any bearing whatsoever on how you treat them. They are living animals and are capable of feeling pain.

 

[The Other Lebowski]

Did you just wake up one day and was like "hmm I am going to get a tank"
Did you do any research? At all?
Are you a tank owner because you genuinely like fish or you like the appearance of liking fish?

From your post earlier I would suggest you do more research...A fish is still a pet....you would not get a dog with out buying them proper food, and taking them to the vet would you? Hence the same thing with testing your water...you are ensuring a safe and healthy environment for your fish!

1. yes
2. sure have, a lot
3. i like the appearance of the fish. it's true i don't have too many friends, but its mostly by choice and i wouldn't want to use the fish as a substitute.


the dog analogy is way off, we're talking about a completely different creature with incomparable biology, nervous system etc. the testing madness is obviously a result of a manufacturer-induced hysteria, same as with the flu madness. get your shot today.