Thoughts on automatic feeders?

[BleuTheBetta]

Hello! I recently saw an automatic feeder somewhere on the web, and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them? Wondering about going to get one for myself, thoughts?

https://www.chewy.com/zoo-med-bettamatic-automatic-daily/dp/154799

 

[jaylach]

There are mixed views on automatic feeders. For myself I'd consider using if I was going to be gone for a while but not for every day use.

As to the one you linked I would run away...
1) Advertised to feed twice a day which is too often.
2) 40% 1 star reviews.
3) No way to adjust feed amounts or frequency.

 

[Ichthys]

Twice a day is not too often. Nowhere near.

I would stay well away from auto feeders because the humidity can get to the food, making it clog up. If you’re wanting one for when you go away, fish are fine without food for a week or two, so an autofeeder is just an unnecessary risk.

 

[Endlersendlers]

Agree with Jaylach. I’ve had auto feeders in use for a few months to prepare for a 3 week vacation, as I need to be sure it will not over feed while I’m gone. I still hand feed so I can know what’s going on, if someone’s not eating, as well as to fatten them up before going. They are live bearers, so the amount today won’t go as far with extra mouths to feed.

I found with most auto feeders, the opening even at the smallest setting drops an awful lot of food and would pollute your water in no time. I add tape at a right angle to narrow the slit further, try it over a paper plate until I get the amount I want somewhat consistently. There’s some variation with each turn so I do a few before deciding on any further changes.

I also watch periodically to make sure it’s not going to waste but actually getting eaten quickly. I’ll admit it’s a risk and best practice is to hand feed, but I like knowing for vacations and the unexpected that they’re getting fed.

Some use batteries and some are rechargeable and you might not know if it’s still working unless you look carefully at the display for the battery indicator or use the “hand feed” button to make sure it still works.

I know some people say they will survive going hungry a couple weeks and they are possibly right but to me that’s beyond tough love. Did you ever try telling a dog in the wild they might go a week between meals, so don’t complain the next 6 days until you go to the store? Did original humans eat 3 times a day? We aren’t comfortable going back to feast or famine but would do better with smaller portions for a while if it came to that. I try to be as considerate to the fish. That’s just me, but I also say thank you to AI.

Hope that helps!

Edited for spelling and to add last paragraph.

 

[Ichthys]

It is tough love, I agree, but would you feed your hungry dog if the food would kill it? I’ve heard so many stories of autofeeders that have clogged up or dumped all the food in, and wiped out the tank.
Maybe the modern ones are better, I don’t know.

 

[BleuTheBetta]

Yeah, it’s a risk for sure. Which is why I’m asking here, and so far I have found some pretty good advice.
I was just linking that one as an example of an auto feeder, I read the reviews and that’s definitely not what I’m getting
And it would just be for a week. I am looking into more modernized feeders, better reviews so far.

 

[outofwater]

I've used them for 2 week trips and I'm a fan. I have 2 tanks, one with a single gourami and a community tank with neons, ottos and cories. What others said about testing and fine tuning the amount is true, you want to be done with that plenty before your trip.

I bought simple, motorized, battery operated ones from Amazon. They're both programmable for 1 or multiple feedings.

I also try to bw extra generous with food a week or so before I depart, just to be sure they have some extra bulk in them during my absence.

Upon return I found the fish ok, the feeders operating normally, and the tanks no worse in terms of cleanliness (visible or otherwise, I always test the water upon returning from trips and finish with a large water change regardless of results)

 

[Endlersendlers]

If it dumps all the food in, it’s definitely not the kind I use. As for clogging, don’t use flakes or anything that doesn’t pour easily. As for moisture, most openings face up when not in use and only turn to pour so they don’t get splashed from the surface. Those are moisture resistant. That said, it is a risk and it’s best to hand fed. I would not use one for a small tank or one little fish as it can go wrong very fast and you’d not know until it was too late. Yes, polluted water can kill your fish. Is it worth the risk? Like many things, it can be done right in some cases and be a disaster in others.

In the dog example, someone asks would you feed your dog if it would kill it. I would not put out a bag of dog food for self serve and leave it alone for the month. Nor would I leave him hungry with nothing for a week. If I used a feeder for him I would make sure it only gave what I would give or less. However, there are many other factors to consider in the dog scenario not worth this discussion, such as hygiene and social interaction. He doesn’t want to be left behind and in practice I take him with me. It’s harder to take multiple fish on vacation. I might consider it for one betta though.

So, when someone asks about auto feeders, we can give different viewpoints but I don’t think it’s fair to state absolutes. We are looking for the best life for the fish and if someone wants to use a feeder, I am going to share how to make that as safe as possible because you can kill them by over feeding. I present that as part of the decision process and then talk about ways of minimizing the risk.

There are legitimate reasons for using auto feeders, from convenience to vacations to insuring they will be fed if you are unexpectedly hospitalized, have a car accident, death, whatever, until they can hopefully be taken care of again. It is not wrong to want to ensure your pets are not starved in your expected or unexpected absence. In a multi fish tank, some are shy and get less food than others and may starve to death or into illness over that 3 weeks. That is not an ideal scenario, although it is easier and cheaper to just leave. Auto feeders take time, money, attention to detail in dosing and adjusting doses and schedules with population changes and growth, etc. It’s work to do it right. Much more work than starving them for a few weeks and telling yourself it’s for their own good. Your children wouldn’t starve for a weekend either. Why do we think fish don’t get hungry and uncomfortable or feel pain, or feel stress, get lonely, etc?

 

[Byron]

First, I would never use any sort of auto feeder, the serious risk is way too great as others have rightly mentioned.

Second, fish do not need feeding every day, or every week, if they are reasonably healthy and not fry. What goes in must come out and that means less water quality which is a serious issue if you are not there to deal with whatever.

Fish do not need food the way birds and mammals do, because the fish do not require all that energy to create heat, being ectotherms rather than endotherms. And fish will eat any food they find, which means overeat...it is their inherent nature to do so because they have to capture/find the food and they are not going to pass it up in case more is not coming.

And feeding any mature fish twice a day is not only unnecessary, it is risking their health and water quality again. Missing one, two or three days a week does no harm whatsoever.

 

[Endlersendlers]

And feeding any mature fish twice a day is not only unnecessary, it is risking their health and water quality again. Missing one, two or three days a week does no harm whatsoever.

Doesn’t it depend on how much you’re feeding twice a day and not just the fact of feeding twice a day?

Edited typo.

 

[Ichthys]

I’ve fed my fish about half a dozen times a day for 50 years. I fill them up (almost) every time. If the food is appropriate for the species, you can’t overfeed. True, they don’t need fed every day, but more (appropriate) food means healthier and stronger fish. Most fish have a feast or famine mentality as Byron has said. When they find food they’ll eat as much as they can because they don’t know when they’ll find more. It’s totally natural for them to pig out till they’re full whenever they get the chance.

Obviously more food means more nitrates which means more /bigger water changes, so there’s no real excuse for a reduction in water quality.

 

[Byron]

Doesn’t it depend on how much you’re feeding twice a day and not just the fact of feeding twice a day?

Edited typo.

No. A fish of "x" size only needs "y" nutrition to function. Several years back I remember an article in one of the fish magazines that an average-sized tetra only needs one or two small flakes a day to get sufficient nutrition. Those of us who feed all they need do not see issues because of it. I used to feed twice daily, the evening meals were the "treats" like frozen bloodworms, shrimp, daphnia. I stopped because I was clearly overfeeding the fish for no valid reason. For a few years I have fed once on four or five days a week, with "fast" days in between.

 

[Endlersendlers]

Have you heard of studies that humans who are fed just enough to survive live longer? There are studies on Holocaust survivors theorizing this is why they tended to live so long. Most people I know value quality of life over near starvation even if it means they might live longer. We can’t ask the fish but I think I might know their opinion on the matter.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You folks know me, so lets look at some science here

Below are just two studies I found pretty quickly. But both seem to indicate overfeeding is possible and likely detrimental.

Taddesse, F., Huh, M.D., Bai, S.C. and Vijverberg, J., 2014. Histological changes of liver in overfed young nile tilapia. Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Science, 9(2), pp.63-74.

Abstract :
We investigated histopathologically liver structural responses of Nile Tilapia Oreochromis niloticus towards overfeeding. Mixed population of O. niloticus with mean weight of 55±3.83 g was acclimated for one week. Then, the fish were separated into control and treatment groups. Glass aquariums with external biofilters and artificial heaters were used. Control and treatment groups were fed commercial Tilapia diet at 3 and 6% of fish body weight, respectively. Fish were dissected at three time intervals. Tissues were fixed, re-fixed, processed, embedded with paraffin and sectioned. Sectioned tissue ribbons were stained with hematoxylin and eosin technique for light microcopy. Hepatosomatic Index (HSI) and Hepatohypertrophic Index (HHI) were calculated. Irregular shaped hepatocytes with circular, conspicuous and centrally located nuclei were found from all control groups. Large hypertrophic hepatocytes with nuclei dislocated to the cell periphery observed after three weeks of overfeeding. Lipid vacuolation and atrophy were found after five weeks of overfeeding. Fish overfed for three weeks showed significantly (p<0.05) higher HSI and HHI values. Whereas, fish which were under third week control group showed the second significantly (p<0.05) higher HSI value. Significant (p<0.05) differences in HSI as well as HHI were not found between zero and fifth week control groups. We conclude that overfeeding may cause liver histological alterations in O. niloticus and in turn lower aquaculture profitability by making the fish susceptible to disease.
from https://www.researchgate.net/profil...es-of-Liver-in-Overfed-Young-Nile-Tilapia.pdf

or

Zang, L., Shimada, Y. & Nishimura, N. Development of a Novel Zebrafish Model for Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus. Sci Rep 7, 1461 (2017). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-017-01432-w

Abstract​

Obesity is a major cause of type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM) in mammals. We have previously established a zebrafish model of diet-induced obesity (DIO zebrafish) by overfeeding Artemia. Here we created DIO zebrafish using a different method to induce T2DM. Zebrafish were overfed a commercially available fish food using an automated feeding system. We monitored the fasting blood glucose levels in the normal-fed group (one feed/day) and overfed group (six feeds/day) over an 8-week period. The fasting blood glucose level was significantly increased in DIO zebrafish compared with that of normal-fed zebrafish. Intraperitoneal and oral glucose tolerance tests showed impaired glucose tolerance by overfeeding. Insulin production, which was determined indirectly by measuring the EGFP signal strength in overfed Tg(−1.0ins:EGFP) sc1 zebrafish, was increased in DIO zebrafish. The anti-diabetic drugs metformin and glimepiride ameliorated hyperglycaemia in the overfed group, suggesting that this zebrafish can be used as a model of human T2DM. Finally, we conducted RNA deep sequencing and found that the gene expression profiling of liver-pancreas revealed pathways common to human T2DM. In summary, we developed a zebrafish model of T2DM that shows promise as a platform for mechanistic and therapeutic studies of diet-induced glucose intolerance and insulin resistance.
from https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01432-w

 

[Ichthys]

Let’s be totally clear here. There’s a world of difference between ‘appropriate’ and ‘inappropriate’ foods.
Overfeeding “commercial fish food” to zebra danios, as in TwoTankAmin’s second link, is only going to be a bad thing. For one, a basic commercial fish food isn’t an ideal diet for all fish, and most danios (and most barbs)… the hyperactive fish that need a lot of energy, will overeat because they don’t know when to stop.
Also commercial aquaculture tilapia food is definitely not an ideal diet, being very high in protein for rapid growth. You can easily cause problems overfeeding either of these foods.
Substitute most of these feeds with more appropriate, lower protein foods, eg live foods, veg based foods, etc, will not produce similar results in either of those experiments.