Thinking of Salt Water

[Grey Legion]

Thanks, I need all the help I can get I still may use my 135 Gal if I get a deal on the lighting I'm after...

time will tell...I ahve moved on to start my research on what I want in the tank...I am in the process of making my "wish list" I know not everything will be able to go in the tank but I figured it is a good way to start without spending any money..

 

[parker313]

Parker your becoming my favorite person on this forum and the one I dred the most...everythim I see you name I start talking about fish and tanks to anyone that cares to listen...I have learned alot and have a good idea what I may do.

Well, you're in luck b/c my in-laws are in town for a couple of days and that tends to infringe on my computer time

 

[Navarre]

the yellow tang should be at least a 50 gallon.

Definately a minimum of 100 gallons. Some people have sucess with 60 gallons but there is a difference between a fish surviving and thriving.

As for drilling a tank....

Usually the larger tanks are the ones that get drilled. The reason for drilling is because they can be connected to a "sump" tank. this sump can hold skimmers, heaters etc and thus keep the clutter in the main tank to a minimum. It also increases the volume of water so the peramters usually remain more stable. A sump is also a good source for filtration. Deep sand beds, more liverock or my personal favorite, a mud bases system with macro algae for nutrient exportation.

 

[superman]

Sorry that I wasn't clear on why to drill the tank, Navarre hit it right on the nose though.

forget the whole idea of watts per gallon in saltwater, tends to get a lot of people in trouble, they end up underestimating the amount of light that they need.

An extremely common problem in the hobby is that once a newbie gets into saltwater and starts getting into coral keeping they realize (usually after killing a couple of corals) that there lighting just isn't up to par. This ends up costing the hobbyist more in the long run, because they then have to spend more money on more/new lighting, which a lot of times means that your old lighting that you spent plenty of money on just sits and collects dust.

The different types of lighitng, vho, t5, overdriving NO, metal halide, natural sulight etc. and mixes of the mentioned all have there pros and cons. Don't get flustered, simply do some research on what kinds of things you are interested in possibly keeping, and we can all suggest a good lighting set up.

Do keep in mind that in creating a reef tank you must creat a ecosystem that benefits all the inhabitants. You can't stock whatever fish you want and then try to add whatever corals you want. Som fish eat corals, some corals eat fish. So do your research and post what your plans may be. Doing this can end up saving you tons of money and frustration in the long run. Have fun with it, keep on reading!

 

[Grey Legion]

Sorry I should clear that up what I meant by "reef" tank is a FOWLR that is what I want I now knopw they are 2 different things.

I want to stay away from MH lights all together to costly to run ( I pay the bill ) I really like VHO and PC lighting and that is where I want to stay...does that help

now using the 135 as my tank how much light would I need ??

using this site as my lighting center CLICK HERE

I don't know if the prices are good/bad but they are local so that helps
so please feel free to have a look and see what look good to you, you never know I may already have my eye on it...

so far I know I need the following:

1 - R/O system to clean my water
2 - Sump / Skimmer / Heater(s) / drilling tank
3 - Canopy/lighting ( VHO and/or PC )
4- SW gear testing equip..etc
5 - Sea Salt

is that a good start ?? before i jump into LR and such

 

[sammydee]

You will need powerheads for water circulation. 10-15 times that of your tank... so that's at least 1350 gallons per hour (I would reccomend a bit more). You need that much circulation to simulate a reef environment and to provide the flow your live rock needs to filter. Several smaller powerheads is better than one big one too as it adds more conflicting and natural flow.

You could have a look at T5s - they're supposed to be a pretty viable alternative to Metal Halide, as are power compacts. Make sure you get the right spectrum. You want the 10,000K marine white bulbs with maybe some actinics (much bluer) for effect. If you don't want hard corals, and only want the softy low light ones, you could look into overdriving NO - that's what I did and it seems to work OK.

You will need aragonite sand for the substrate, how much depends on whether you're going for a DSB or not. For a canopy to house all this... I recommend building your own. It generally looks better than shop bought ones, is easier than you think, has more room for lighting and you can customise it with room for HOBs and fans. I'll show you how I built mine if you want.

 

[Grey Legion]

I plan on making my own canopy...

the location I am looking at for light are just getting into T5's so I may wait and see what they have to offer in the near future..

what are overdriving NO's ???

I don't think I will be getting into hard corals anytime soon so a softer light may do me for a year or 2 at least...at the rate I am learning things I feel I may be able to take the plunge by...oh I don't know....2011 or so...

so with that being said please have a look at the link I made in my other post and see what lighting looks good to you...also what is the formula for lights when it comes to SW FW uses watt per gallon right ?? so is SW the same or different..or do you use lumens ??

Thanks

 

[superman]

Since you are going with fish only with live rock your lighting options just got really easy to figure and much less expensive. Follow me on my thought process...I would go with vho bulbs. I know that you can get away with NO bulbs with a fish only/live rock tank, but if you plan to upgrade in the future, VHOs are a great option to add too. I did look at your link, they had some good options for VHO, but let me give you my two cents...I would go with an ice cap 660 ballast, with 3 or 4 VHO bulbs, two bulbs being 10,000k, the other two being actinic. I know that there are much less expensive ballasts out there, but the ice cap warranty combined with customer service is enough to sell me, and I am a HUGE penny pincher. Also the nice thing about a great electronic ballast like the ice cap 660 is that you can run many different types of fluorescent bulbs off of it like T5, NO, VHO, HO, basically you name it, so if you change your mind down the road, you aren't buying another ballast. Don't let anyone tell you that you need a certain amount of light for a fish only tank, the fish would do just fine with the ambient light coming in from the room that they are being kept in, it all comes down to asthetics. Given the set up that I have recommended, you will have great viewing quality light that can simply be changed by changing out one of the bulbs and replacing it with other options like a 50/50 bulb or another actinic or 10,000k. Another great thing about this lighting set up is that it is cheap, here is a link to championlighting http/www.championlighting.com/e/env/0001...g/vhoretro.html
I would look at the 3x60 Ice Cap VHO Retro W/660 looks like a great deal.
I have dealt with them in the past, and they have great prices and good customer service.
With the lighting I have recommended you can even keep some non light hungry softies, like mushrooms, some leathers, even some LPS if you so like. Disclaimer: You will find that when it comes to lighting that everyone has an opinion, some opinions are stupid (like the opinions of people that will tell you that you fish need a lot of light) but many opinions are valid. There are many options out there, but this option is the one that I would do myself if I were you. I hope that I have helped in some way.

 

[superman]

I plan on making my own canopy...

the location I am looking at for light are just getting into T5's so I may wait and see what they have to offer in the near future..

what are overdriving NO's ???

I don't think I will be getting into hard corals anytime soon so a softer light may do me for a year or 2 at least...at the rate I am learning things I feel I may be able to take the plunge by...oh I don't know....2011 or so...

so with that being said please have a look at the link I made in my other post and see what lighting looks good to you...also what is the formula for lights when it comes to SW FW uses watt per gallon right ?? so is SW the same or different..or do you use lumens ??

Thanks

Sorry that i didn't answer your other questions...

Over driving NO (normal output) fluorescent bulbs would be better explained through an example.

Get an electronic ballast that is meant for four 24" bulbs
hook up two 24" bulbs by doubling up the wires on the 2 bulbs.
This get's into the realm of "user takes responsibility" since this is not recommended by many electronic ballast manufacturers, but in most cases it works out fine.

There really isn't a specific succesful formula for saltwater tanks that I have seen when it comes to lighting. You could try and implement a formula, but someone would come along with an odd tank (example: a 150 gallon cube tank) and would end up not getting enough light since the tank is a whopping 32" tall, when another person with a normal 150 gallon long tank would have plenty of light from the same equipment. What I am trying to say is to not use a formula, but instead look at what is working for other people. The whole formula thing kinda becomes pointless anyways when you are doing a fish only, and only would begin to make sense if you are keeping light demanding specimens. If you wanted the option to keep whatever you wanted you could go with metal halide or a ton of VHO, or a combination of the two...but like I said, there are tons of options, and I am not about to list all of them.

As for flow that sammydee addressed, I couldn't disagree more. You don't have to have a ton of powerheads, but could use one large sump pump that is branched off with a manifold, same effect as the powerheads, less clutter, and in some cases less power consumption. You can always add powerheads if you find the need to, but you definitely don't have to have them like sammydee said. As far as alternating the flow (with powerheads and a wave timer) that is not necessary unless you are keeping corals like SPS for example.

 

[Grey Legion]

OK, I think I am getting the hang of the lingo now I guess what I reall want is this
Fish / Live rock / Soft corals ?? how does that change my lighting ??

also I thank you for the link but I want to keep my shopping with in Canada if possible Duty prices are terrible and I am a penny pincher to when it comes to spending money on nothing...

back on topic:

would the VHO lighting you told me about still be enough to handle that I have a supplier in Canada selling Ice Caps

so is the this right ??

Ballast
End Caps
Stand-Offs

if that is not correct please look throughthe site and point out what is

using three 140w VHO bulbs I will buy them else where

thanks

maybe I may have step one complete

 

[superman]

Yes you have the hang of it now, what you listed will work. Three 140 watt VHO bulbs over your 135 will suffice for softies and lps. looks like you are on your way! Personally I would go with one actinic and two 10,000k.

 

[Grey Legion]

Sounds good..I will start buying my lighting during the month of april !!!



Thanks for all your help with lighting...when it is done or during I will move onto my next big hurdle understanding filtration..

 

[Grey Legion]

Well I finally got my act together and got my plan of attack !!

I won't be using my 135 Gal for a SW tank ( don't want to drill ) and this way I can save money on lighting...hey I'm cheap

when the 135 Gal FW is done and set up and running well I will then start on my marine projects !!

#1 90 Gal Acrylic FOWLR tank in the basement along with the 135 FW
the 90 Gal will be drilled for sump use and of course have all the roper lighting and correct amount of LR to keep it healthy and cool..

#2 a Nano Cube in the office probaly a 24G...I'll worry about ti when the time is right..

Thanks to all for there help and understanding on this task !!