Thinking Of Giving Up Before I Even Start!

[Loony Fish]

DON'T GIVE UP
it's really not a lot of work if you do it right!

 

[trudie1964]

The first thing you'll need to discuss here is what type of filter and what type of stuff to go in it. Aquarists don't necessarily use the same filter media as the manufacturer recommends all the time. And the filter is at the core of the first skills that need to be learned. Also, you'll want to discuss testing kits as this is another very important initial thing.

Equipment things usually need to be discussed first or you will find yourself wasting money after listening to a local fish store salesman, at least most of the time.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks waterdrop, the second hand equipment bought - juwel vision 180 - Fluval 305 external filter - Hydor ETH 300 external heater.

This weekends shopping list:
condensation tray
Liquid master test kit - what make?
thermometer
New filters
ammonia
play sand - i like this idea thanks miss wiggle

oh by the way has anybody kept their instructions on putting the juwel vision 180 cabinet together!!

I am so pleased i found this forum before messing things up. Boyfriend keeps asking when im going to get fish - told him christmas!!

 

[Corleone]

API freshwater master kit is one of the most used. Interpet gets good comments, as well. I've only used one other kit available in the US, which tests nitrite and nitrate in the same test and you get to play a fun guessing game as to which of five identical color squares on the grid are yours. Just make sure that nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia are covered separately and you're good to go. Some (like API's) have two pH tests, they cover different ranges, and there's some overlap. It'll take some playing at first, but generally, one of the two will go unused.

 

[Mr Bliss]

By the way, it might be possible to get/buy some mature media from the LFS. The one I go to gives it for free; you don't get a huge amount but it's a start. It's good business for them as well as they get to start selling you fish faster.

Although most shops would probably try to sell you one of the "bacteria in a bottle" snake oils instead.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah you're definately on the right path to fishkeeping as you have learnt lesson number 1

Do your own research! Not everyone who works at a fish shop or comes on this forum or anyother website knows everything about every species and situation, we can all be wrong sometimes. So don't take the word of anyone as fact, do a bit of research to back up what they are telling you.

Lesson number 2 is that the fish shop is there to make money, sad but true, some fish shops do not have the best interests of the fish at heart. Yes they all have to make a profit, some are decent and will do things like sell you some mature media as above, some unsrupulous stores will sell you some rubbish 'bacteria in a bottle' that doesn't work, too many fish for the tank and sit happy in the knowledge that you'll be back to by more fish and some other miracle treatment products that they choose to sell you in a few weeks when all the first fish have died.

and it seems like you have lesson number 3 down as well - have some patience! The fishless cycling process can sometimes feel like it's never gonna end, likewise some fish you just need to wait until the tanks been running 6 months before you get them. It's a case of sitting back, enjoying what you have looking forward to the stuff that takes a little while!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there trudie, lets discuss your list:

condensation tray: Interesting, I'm not entirely sure what this is but I'm going to assume you mean a lid for the tank that sits between the tank top and the lighting system. If so, then yes that's a great piece of equipment and very important for several reasons. First of all, the more complete you can make it, the better it keeps in jumping fish. Believe it or not fish jumping out happens a lot. Shouldn't be so tight that you worry about fresh air getting in there or that you can't find a nice hole for pouring in various capfuls of liquids without having to lift the front lid, but still it should be fairly comprehensive in its coverage I'd say. Secondly, it protects your lighting system from premature failure from excess moisture. There's going to be a lot of moisture that gets in an aquarium light system in any case but this helps slow it down. And finally of course it slows the evaporation, although that doesn't matter so much because one should always have the good habit of water changes going on which takes care of this.


Liquid master test kit - what make?: As above, I and many others on here are very happy with the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. The Nutrafin Mini-Master is also good, may even test some things better, but I've also heard complaints about being able to interpret the pink levels.. but not really any more than the complaints about being able to interpret the colors on the API tests. It really just takes beginners a while to get the feel of how to guess at the number to fix on for a given color result and its usually not quite as critical as the beginner thinks at the time. I've also read a few posts where users seemed to be getting bad results from Interpet ones, but any kit can have "duff" results either from the liquid being too old or bad user technique, etc. The most important thing is to own a liquid-reagent based kit in the first place and to use it frequently as a beginner to help you understand things in a quantitative manner.

thermometer: These are very important as you can't ever trust the settings on a heater control. The heater control should always be adjusted based on your own feedback from looking at your thermometer. Better I think to go for plain old liquid in glass cheap ones inside float tubes and just get maybe more than one for backup and comparison. Suction cups can stick them whereever you want.

New filters: Well this is a huge topic, so we should be aware we won't cover it all. You should do some searches and attempt to learn the basics (I can do them in some other post maybe.) A good starting point is the 5x Turnover guideline for flow rate. Take your tank volume, multiply it by 5 and write down both the big number in both US gallons and liters. That big number is the number of gallons or liters per hour (!) that you want your water to turn over in the system. It can take some digging at manufacturers web sites to figure out the flow rate of a given model of filter to see how it fits your picture. Now in the ideal world (eg. if you've got plenty of money!) one would like to then divide this filter power in two and have two filters so that one can clean only one at a time and so that there is backup if one fails. This is awfully fancy though and most of us beginners, me included, have only one filter on our tank. I use an external cannister, which I think of as an awesome type of filter that I wish I had had years ago as it does the best job possible I think. But a good experienced aquarist can make any type of filtration do a good job and there are things to like about all the types, like HOB (Hang on Back) and internal (box down in the tank.) You'll need to learn about the differences between mechanical, chemical and biological filtration which is how we divide up the functional purposes of aquarium filtration. (Don't freeek, its a chicken-n-egg problem, deciding on filtratration and getting started!)

ammonia: Getting the right ammonia for your fishless cycle can be the hardest thing there is (before you've found it) and the easiest thing in the world (after you've got it!) What we use is pure, clear, household ammonia that gets sold sometimes for people who want to skip the commercialism and buy cheap housecleaning materials. As such we hope to find it in grocery stores (in the US this is common) or in hardware stores or bigbox everything stores. In the UK, lots of members can help. Its ideal when you can see in the bottle. When you shake it you want it to bubble like water would, not to foam up. That's because you don't want any soaps or fragrances or dyes in the ammonia. Often they come in quart or half gallon bottles which is fine.

OK, let us know how its going!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[Mr Bliss]

Fantastic advice from waterdrop as always. This kind of thing is why I joined this forum in the first place.

In case pure ammonia isn't available where you live (it's impossible to find it where I live, as far as I can tell), you can probably buy Ammonium Carbonate (hartshorn, baker's ammonia) at a pharmacy or possibly even at a specialist baking/cooking shop or department. It has the added benefit that the Carbonate part of the chemical can be directly used as a food source by the same ammonia-consuming bacteria.

edit: Ammonium Sulphate can be sometimes be found in well-stocked gardening stores or nurseries. It works as well. The Sulphate part has no effect on your water chemistry as far as the cycling process is concerned.

Both of the above come in dry form, not as a liquid.

 

[OldMan47]

I would avoid the ammonium sulphate. Although it will supply ammonia, the sulphate will form an acid in solution and will tend to push you pH down. If you have enough calcium to buffer the sulphate's effect it could be a source but I am much more comfortable with the idea of using a frozen prawn that is allowed to decay rather than add the sulphate to a tank. Ammonium sulphate is a dirt cheap chemical in any garden store, it is often used as a very frugal way to get nitrogen for plants. Although it is many years since I used it, at the time it was much less expensive than most premixed fertilizers. A 50 lb bag went for about 50 cents when a small bag of fertilizer was many dollars.

 

[Timbobimbo]

Hey there guys, i'm EXTREMELY new to the whole tropical fish keeping hobby and would just like to ask a question or two.

Today i purchased myself a FRF-900 tank set up (180 ish litre) and am reading constantly about cycling, and it seems fishless cycling is the way to go for me (i hate seeing dead pets, lost a bearded dragon the other week). I was just wondering if snyone can suggest a decent ammonia product that is readily available on the internet to kick start my cycling process?

Thanks in advance.

Tim

 

[OldMan47]

No internet needed. Go to Ace Hardware in their cleaning section and get a product called clear ammonia. I bought a gallon of it over a year ago for about $2 if my memory serves me right. With the 8 tanks that I have established since then, I may have used a whole cup. If you are in the UK, I have read that there is a store named boots that carries much the same thing.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes agreed, often not hard to find in the USA. In the southeast here I found it in my grocery, large bottle for less than a dollar. No foam when shaken. You don't want soaps, fragances or dyes in it.

Welcome to TFF, Tim. The members can help you more easily with questions like this if you post your location in your profile and you will see many members have. We have large numbers in the UK and then a scattering around the globe. Also, if you start your own thread on your fishless cycling, it'll help you keep track of answers given and help the members keep your case clear when they are thinking about it. In my opinion you are incredibly lucky to have stumbled on this forum prior to setting up your fish tank, if you have the time and patience to learn first, it will make a world of difference in the hobby for you. Read all the threads you can and of course the pinned articles at the top are even more important.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Mr Bliss]

I would avoid the ammonium sulphate. Although it will supply ammonia, the sulphate will form an acid in solution and will tend to push you pH down.

Can you explain this? I don't have a very good grasp of the underlying chemistry. I mean, I know there's a sulphate - bisulphate - sulphuric acid equilibrium (in the same way there's an equilibrium between CO2 and carbonic acid, or nitrate and nitric acid for that matter), but that's pretty much it. In any case, isn't this a bit pedantic, given that:

- Potassium sulphate is a common planted tank fertilizer, for example in EI dosing, typically dosed to 20 ppm.
- Tap waters often have 100+ ppm sulphates, and 200+ isn't uncommon. The difference between KH and GH in tap waters is, to the best of my understanding, almost entirely due to sulphate salts.

In this light some 5 ppm from ammonium sulphate seems unlikely to have a noticeable impact.

 

[Timbobimbo]

thanks old and waterdrop, i thought i put my locatino in my profile but obviously not!

I have been reading a load of threads on the forum, and it does seem daunting at first, but i'm determined to get it right, even if it means going a month or more without fish, i look at it as giving me time to set up the tank just how i want it to look

Thanks again

Tim

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, good approach Tim, there are usually a lot of things to learn and fill up the time between these various stages, either during fishless cycling itself or for periods afterward when you have more hardy fish and perhaps are waiting for the tank to mature more for some of your more delicate selections.

In my sons case, it took us 5 months to do our fishless cycle, but this was because the tank broke in the middle, letting us more or less do it twice! We also had very soft water, causing pH crashes, which was how I learned about those types of problems.

~~waterdrop~~