Thinking About Cichlids

[Human-Fish Hybrid]

I have lately been thinking about lake malawi cichlids like crazy, and would like to know how to start them off. As far as I have seen and herd, they are pretty much small fish. Would a 10 gallon do? do they like plants? can i mix them with any kind of snails, like apple? just thinking about cichlids still, but would like some info.

 

[sylvia]

Malawis are small fish? Not realy... a 10 gallon is an absolute no-no. If you're looking for cichlids for a 10 gallon, try some tanganyikan shell-dwellers such as n. multifasciatus. These are lovely little fish that are extremely easy to breed, do have some specific requirements but those are easy to meet and they are very fun to watch as well. Most malawi cichlids will uproot plants because they tend to dig a lot. It does depend on what you're thinking about though.

When you say 'malawi' I imagine you have mbuna in mind. If so, I think the smallest tak you could do is a 30 gallon but even that's a little small - something of about 55 gallons would be much better and allow you to keep a better variety of fish.

Regardless of what you're considering or decide on, you realy need to research each species of fish first. 'Thinking' about things won't realy do any good - read up on them and keep asking questions

 

[adambrum]

Welcome . as the first post said if you are looking at keeping malawi's there is a lot of info in the pinned articals as for the plants you wont have much luck mosy cichlids dig like mad and uproot everything, tank size the bigger the better but 55 gallon ( about 200 litres + ) is the min,

research is the most important thing !

 

[brewyn]

I think you may have got some kind of message there m8,but they suggest 12 gallons just for 1 fancy goldfish.

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

Welcome . as the first post said if you are looking at keeping malawi's there is a lot of info in the pinned articals as for the plants you wont have much luck mosy cichlids dig like mad and uproot everything, tank size the bigger the better but 55 gallon ( about 200 litres + ) is the min,

research is the most important thing !

I'm going to play devils advocate here and say, that yes the bigger the better when it comes to begining with malawi cichlids, but there are species which can be kept in less quite easily.
I have 18 sub adult mbuna in a tank thats 18 UK gallons!! They are very healthy and very happy, are showing great colour and breeding. I do a 25% water change every week, and have average filtration.
The species are Iodotropheus Sperengae, Pseudotropheus Saulosi and Pseudotropheus Acei "Yellow Tail", and I have no problems with fighting.
I am by no means a novice when it comes to keeping these fish and have 6 other tanks with mbuna and haps in them, I have kept fish for over 10 years and malawis for 4 of those years.
I am not saying that this will work for everyone, just that it works for me and my philosophy is : if it ain't broke don't fix it

 

[Human-Fish Hybrid]

Ok, than tanganyika sounds good. is there any habits or things i should treat them with, like shelters, or decorations? maybe a special kind of gravel? and, about the size of malawi, i was thinking electric yellows, which in 3 different pet stores i went to were almost 2 inches, and one of the workers there said it was from lake malawi. Also, angels are cichlids, right?

 

[brewyn]

18 cichlids in an 18 gallon tank, WOW, breeding is not a sign of happy fish, they will breed in pure crap as its there natural instincts for them to keep the species alive, the rule of thumb for malawis is the bigger the better, for the novice or expert. if were going to compare expertiese then I have been keeping fish since the age of 12 and i,m slightly, by a few years, older than you aberdeen, and the last 10 years has been NOTHING but lake malawi cichlids for me, *lost interest in everything else*. I SERIOUSLY would not suggest or even try to put hope into some bodies head, that they could keep a healthy stock of cichlids in a 10 gallon tank. I know not everyone has the space or even finances for a larger tank, but 10 gallons would be cruel, un interesting, and I have to say, it wouldn't work for me and it most deffiniatly wont work for the human hybrid. the peramaters would fluctuate too much, the temprature would constantly rise and drop, without good filtration they would be swimming in there own waste. no, dont do it mate, get yourself a 3ft tank if nothing else, as even aberdeens salousi need a 50ish gallon tank to be truly happy. there are no hard fast rules, just common sence, and this is why folk always say, the bigger the better, theres more room for any possible mistakes we may make.

PS, I cant comment on the small tangs as I have never kept them, and yes, angels are a cichlid, but again, an adult pr would not do well in a 10 gallon.

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

18 cichlids in an 18 gallon tank, WOW, breeding is not a sign of happy fish, they will breed in pure crap as its there natural instincts for them to keep the species alive, the rule of thumb for malawis is the bigger the better
if were going to compare expertiese then I have been keeping fish since the age of 12 and i,m slightly, by a few years, older than you aberdeen, and the last 10 years has been NOTHING but lake malawi cichlids for me, *lost interest in everything else*. I SERIOUSLY would not suggest or even try to put hope into some bodies head, that they could keep a healthy stock of cichlids in a 10 gallon tank.
I know not everyone has the space or even finances for a larger tank, but 10 gallons would be cruel, un interesting, and I have to say, it wouldn't work for me and it most deffiniatly wont work for the human hybrid. the peramaters would fluctuate too much, the temprature would constantly rise and drop, without good filtration they would be swimming in there own waste. no, dont do it mate, get yourself a 3ft tank if nothing else, as even aberdeens salousi need a 50ish gallon tank to be truly happy. there are no hard fast rules, just common sence, and this is why folk always say, the bigger the better, theres more room for any possible mistakes we may make.

Brewyn,
The tank in question is 34x12x12 (inches) so its just less than the tank you suggest!!
I'm not suggesting anything either, I just said what works for one person doesn't work for us all, same as you. The tank is a constant 26C, as this tank is in my shed with a thermostatically controlled temperature.
I am by no means "comparing expertise" as you put it, and anyone calling themself an expert should think again. I am, as everyone else on a forum is, just sharing my experiences.

As for putting cichlids in a 10 gallon tank, have you ever heard of shell dwellers, a pair of neo. multifasciatus would go great in that size tank. I take it you have never kept these fish before as they are anything but uninteresting, in fact I would say that for their size, they have far more character than any malawi cichlid.

HFH : listen to what Sylvia said, you won't regret getting the multies, I had a wild caught breeding colony and their antics provided endless amusement. They move so much sand about, they are like mini JCB's!!

 

[brewyn]

aberdeen, although I admitt my suprise at 18 cichlids in an 18 gallon tank, its not your tank I am reffering to, I am not even refering to shell dwellers or the like. I am merely trying to discourage someone from making a mistake by keeping mbuna in a 10 gallon tank. which is what he proposes to do, I mean, last time I looked, yellow labs were mbuna? I have read other peoples comments, WHAT!!! do you think I flick through, blow my horn, and make an idiot of myself, no, I read things 1st.

 

[sylvia]

Ok, than tanganyika sounds good. is there any habits or things i should treat them with, like shelters, or decorations? maybe a special kind of gravel? and, about the size of malawi, i was thinking electric yellows, which in 3 different pet stores i went to were almost 2 inches, and one of the workers there said it was from lake malawi. Also, angels are cichlids, right?

If you are talkign specificaly about n. multifasciatus (the tanganyikan shell-dweller), then I suggest you begin by looking through the links here: http/cichlid-forum.com/articles/shelldweller_corner.php
This is the multie profile from there: http/cichlid-forum.com/articles/n_multifasciatus.php and a bit on keeping them: http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/keeping_neo_multi.php
This part is also extremely useful: http/cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Pay attention especialy to the 10 gallon reccomendations and the bit about buffer recipes.
General, brief profile: http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/neolamp-multi.htm
More info (+ some lovely pics): http/www.africancichlids.net/Tanganyika/...atus/index.html

You'll find that they do best in small 'colonies' with one male and several females. They preffer to have sand to dig into - darker colors bring out the fish more - and they must have snail shells to hide in (hence the name 'shell' dweller). Like other rift lake cichlids, they preffer their water to be hard and alkaline (ie: mineral-rich with a high pH). This can usualy be achieved relatively simply by using limestone rockwork for decoration and sand that increases pH (eg: crushed coral).

Electric yellows (or 'yellow labs' as they are sometimes known) are mbuna cichlids that grow to 4-5" or so. Just because you see them at 2", doesn't mean they'll always be that size! When you see a great dane puppy, you don't think it's going to stay about a foot tall for ever lol The fish you saw were just that - 'puppies' (well... older fry anyway ). Lab profile: http/www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=713

Yep, angels are cichlids - but they are totaly different to african rift lake cichlids and have completely different requirements (eg: they like soft water and a low pH and are less aggressive). The minnimum tank size for a pair is about 30 gallons. They are territorial when breeding but they can still be kept with smallish, peaceful fish such as large tetras (not small ones) and cories. They do like a planted tank (and won't uproot them). Because they grow quite 'tall', their tank should be high (whereas with most fish you are looking for length and width - not so much height). Needless to say they should not, ever, be kept with african cichlids such as electric yellows - they are not compatible temperament-wise or environmental-requirement-wize.

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

Ok, than tanganyika sounds good. is there any habits or things i should treat them with, like shelters, or decorations? maybe a special kind of gravel? and, about the size of malawi, i was thinking electric yellows, which in 3 different pet stores i went to were almost 2 inches, and one of the workers there said it was from lake malawi. Also, angels are cichlids, right?

In answer to your first question, the yellow labs can get to about 5" or more, my dominant male is about 4 1/2". Angels are also cichlids, but in no way can they be kept in a ( I'm assuming US ) 10 gallon tank, angels can grow to 6" each and they are usually deeper bodied than that.
The only cichlids from africa you could successfully keep in a 10 gallon tank are some of the shelldwellers from lake Tanganyika. The species (n. multifasciatus) already mentioned will be a perfect starter one, they are really quite easy to keep and breed. You could keep one of the species of apistogramma in this tank, but they are from south america and need different water conditions to african rift lake cichlids.
HTH

edit : damn sylvia is a faster typer than me!!

aberdeen, although I admitt my suprise at 18 cichlids in an 18 gallon tank, its not your tank I am reffering to, I am not even refering to shell dwellers or the like. I am merely trying to discourage someone from making a mistake by keeping mbuna in a 10 gallon tank. which is what he proposes to do, I mean, last time I looked, yellow labs were mbuna? I have read other peoples comments, WHAT!!! do you think I flick through, blow my horn, and make an idiot of myself, no, I read things 1st.

No thats Mamafish who does that, as we all know

I wasn't trying to stir anything up brewyn, I know you are trying to help HFH, I was just trying to illustrate that everyone has different experiences when it comes to even the most common of things

 

[brewyn]

mate, I'm the 1st to agree with you, my intention was not to knock what you are doing with your tanks, you give good sound advise on the majority of things, and I thought that I had worded my advise as not to cause controversy with other folk, but you have to be honest and say that mbuna and 10 gallons are not a good match. I dont beleive you saw, that at the bottom of my advise, I did say I could not comment on tangs as I have never kept them, you may have been busy replying to me. Anyway,I stand firmly by what i say and there is no hard feelings, it will please the mods to see me involved in some serious conversation for a change LOL. and no doubt when I get back fromTesco's with my bag full of munchies, there will be an e-mail from mama with regards to your comments to her, LOL. I'm saying nothing, it wasn't me, it was aberdeen miss!!!!!!!

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

mate, I'm the 1st to agree with you, my intention was not to knock what you are doing with your tanks, you give good sound advise on the majority of things, and I thought that I had worded my advise as not to cause controversy with other folk, but you have to be honest and say that mbuna and 10 gallons are not a good match. I dont beleive you saw, that at the bottom of my advise, I did say I could not comment on tangs as I have never kept them, you may have been busy replying to me. Anyway,I stand firmly by what i say and there is no hard feelings, it will please the mods to see me involved in some serious conversation for a change LOL. and no doubt when I get back fromTesco's with my bag full of munchies, there will be an e-mail from mama with regards to your comments to her, LOL. I'm saying nothing, it wasn't me, it was aberdeen miss!!!!!!!

She doesn't scare me, I have an attack cat to protect me

The replies were a bit crossed earlier, I'm currently posting on three other forums, as well as trying to keep an eye on this one!!

 

[mamafish68]

I shoot cats so dont hide behind your P*ssy...



anyone consider that multies breed like rats and thus a newbie should be forwarned to have more tanks on hand or was everyone so busy flexing their fish muscles they forgot?



he's hesitant about going to a bigger tank much less more grow out tanks.

buffering recipe for a newbie? god help those poor fish, unstable ph will kill a african faster then a low ph...



men

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

I shoot cats so dont hide behind your P*ssy...



anyone consider that multies breed like rats and thus a newbie should be forwarned to have more tanks on hand or was everyone so busy flexing their fish muscles they forgot?



he's hesitant about going to a bigger tank much less more grow out tanks.

buffering recipe for a newbie? god help those poor fish, unstable ph will kill a african faster then a low ph...



men

A cat killer
Multies would be a good starter fish for them though, and if they breed then its up to them if they want to save the fry isn't it? But yes, I forgot about saying to have other tank, it was well past my bedtime by then
Water buffering could be done by a piece of tufa rock in the tank, or by coral gravel/sand in a filter. Thats how I do it