Thinking about a 60 gallon

[Fishies4Ever]

We need to confirm your water parameters. African rift lake cichlids are hard water. South American cichlids are soft to very soft water. Central American cichlids are moderate. These are subjective terms, but the fish have cler needs and planning any cichlid without knowing the GH (and pH) is not the way to go assuming you are concerned over the well-being of your fish. I will say that combining Central American species and/or South American is very difficult, depending upon the species and tank size. Africans are completely opposite. Members experienced in these fish can explain more.

Yes if I confirm my water parameters it will defiantly be easier to choose what fish would be good together I will try and order a hardness water tester maybe sometime tonight!

 

[Byron]

Yes if I confirm my water parameters it will defiantly be easier to choose what fish would be good together I will try and order a hardness water tester maybe sometime tonight!

You may only use it the once...can't youget the GH from the water authority,on their website or call them? If it is a private well water source, a fish store might test it. Make sure you get the number and the unit of measure.

 

[Wills]

Wow thank you for all this advice!!! It sounds like an amazing variety of cichlids. I can live without having live plants in there cause they are difficult to keep after. Would this be an all male tank or would there be some females to? Would it be possible to go with the red variant of the Estherae?

You might be ok with the Red Estherae but you might have a problem with the Yellow female Saulosi but might not be a problem - it may be a case of trial and error as they are unpredictable - I'd recommend having a back up plan in terms of separating problem fish. Such as a separate time out tank or (how I'm planning to do it) have the tank set up so you can quickly put in a divider of some description. In terms of genders for an Mbuna tank you want to keep them with (ideally) 1 male to 4 or more females, from the list I mentioned you'd be ok at 4 females but some species such as Maingaino are better with 7+. Getting your genders right is hard so you might need to buy more fish at the start and thin out over time, sometimes different gender mixes will work - eg 2 males 3 females but not guaranteed. Also worth bearing in mind a group of Synodontis Catfish, Petricolla or Lucipinnis are the best choice as they dont get too big but will do a good job of controling fry numbers.

If you wanted to do a male only tank you are better off looking at peacocks and haps, this was a list that I was working on for a 75 gallon tank that I ran by a few people and got good vibes from.

Aulonocara Stuartgranti - Ngara Flametail
Aulonocara Rubescens - Ruby Red
Aulonocara Maulana - Bi-Color 500
Aulonocara sp. Stuartgranti "Maleri" Sunshine
Aulonocara Usisya
Aulonocara Turkis

Copadichromis Trewavasae Mloto Likoma
Copadichromis Azureus
Otopharynx Tetrastigma or Otopharynx Lithobates Red Blaze
Protomelas Marginatus
Placidochromis Electra

Being in the US you have access to some brilliant mail order fish places like Imperial Tropicals so putting together such a specific tank is possible - here in the UK it would be a bit tricker (but doable). This plan was for a 75 gallon tank with an aim of getting 12 unique fish, this is 11 on the list and I was going to look at a Yellow Lab group with maybe 8-9 of the fish on this list. For a 60 I'd look at doing 8-10 of these fish, maybe sticking with the Peacocks as they are smaller than most of the Haps.

Some people do mix Peacocks, Haps and Mbuna but I wouldnt recommend it - Haps and Peacocks are Mbuna predators so the Mbunas will always be stressed. They also have quite different needs in terms of diet, Mbuna are strictly herbivores and get ill with a disease called Malawi Bloat if fed a protein rich diet - which is what the Peaocks and Haps need. Peacocks and Haps also need more swimming room than Mbuna so balancing the tank layout for the two is hard.

Wills

 

[Fishies4Ever]

I just had my water tested at pet smart. They said it is about 70 ppm so I think it is pretty hard. I am not sure how accurate it is though but I am going to assume it is correct.

 

[Byron]

I just had my water tested at pet smart. They said it is about 70 ppm so I think it is pretty hard. I am not sure how accurate it is though but I am going to assume it is correct.

Unless you test it elsewhere or yourself, you will likely go with their result. A GH of 70 ppm is very soft. The equivalent degrees (the second measure used in the hobby) is 4 dH. Terms are very subjective and as everyone has seen there is no standard meaning for them, it depends whouses them. But the following list may be helpful in a very gneral way.

0 - 4 dGH 0 - 70 ppm very soft
4 - 8 dGH 70 - 140 ppm soft
8 - 12 dGH 140 - 210 ppm medium hard
12 - 18 dGH 210 - 320 ppm fairly hard
18 - 30 dGH 320 - 530 ppm hard
over 30 dGH over 530 ppm very hard

This means no African rift lake cichlids. Unless of course you take measures to prepare hard water. I've done this myself, but it is not as easy as it sounds.

Any cichlid from South America would be OK in this water. However, tank size enters the picture, and combining cichlid species needs careful thought. None of these species live with any other cichlids in their respective habitats, so putting them together immediately creates risks and subjects the fish to something completely un-natural. One of our members posted a good thread a few weeks back about how we set our fish up to have serious issues like bullying simply by doing things likeputting together mis-matched species. The stress this causes the fish has to play out somehow, and not usually well.

Central American species should be OK here, someone like @Wills can give you more info on these cichlids. But in a 60g, combining species is again going to be less than easy.

 

[Wills]

Coming away thinking its a hard water result with 70ppm as a reading is a bit confusing - I'd really recommend getting a liquid test kit for the fish you are looking at. You get two bottles and your hardness comes from when the colour changes when you add drops from bottle 2.

If you have soft water I agree with Byron and go for South Americans - I'm on a similar page that in South American tanks its about a community of fish that complement each other rather than filing it with cichlids but I dont think you have to limit it to just one species, if you wanted to deep dive into a biotope there are a couple of good examples where you might find a geophagus, a pike and a dwarf for example (not that I would recommend that mix in a tank).

Central Americans depending on hardness, in the wild generally a lot of cichlid species cross over so it is pretty natural for them to mix in a tank especially at a 125g. But Malawi are the best option if you want to keep just cichlids as that is how they live in the lake and really the term 'Cichlid' becomes a bit defunct because its the same as saying 'Fish' if you see what I mean.

 

[Essjay]

You get two bottles and your hardness comes from when the colour changes when you add drops from bottle 2.

Some brand only have 1 bottle, but yes, you do add drops, counting them, till it changes colour. The API GH tester is a one-bottle tester, and it comes in a pack with a single bottle KH tester.
With soft water it doesn't take many drops for the colour to change, and because not much reagent is added, the colour is quite pale and it can be tricky to judge the colour change. The tube has to be shaken after each drop is added so with soft water take the lid off after each drop, put the tube on a white surface and look down into the tube. Because you are now looking through a greater length of water, the colour is more intense.

 

[Fishies4Ever]

Thank you for all the advice everyone I greatly appreciate it. The people at the pet store just used a strip test which I feel like is not usually super reliable. I have liquid test with the test tubes for everything but water hardness so I will have to get a good quality water hardness tester. Would I still be able to do the peacocks and haps or no and for that list would it be one of each species male?

 

[Wills]

Thank you for all the advice everyone I greatly appreciate it. The people at the pet store just used a strip test which I feel like is not usually super reliable. I have liquid test with the test tubes for everything but water hardness so I will have to get a good quality water hardness tester. Would I still be able to do the peacocks and haps or no and for that list would it be one of each species male?

The strips are not terrible but not totally accurate and with the fish you are looking at it is an important measure to get I think.

If you have soft water and want to keep rift lake cichlids you'd need to have coral sand and some kind of limestone rockwork in the tank to keep the water hard and use something like Seachem Rift Lake Salts when you do a water change to get the hardness to match. If you do have softwater you might need the hardness test kit to check the water you change in so it could be a good investment - you might be able to do it with a tds reader though, but I've not used them so not sure thats correct? In my head if you got the water to a certain level with the salts and measured with a hardness test and then a TDS meter you'd know the number you need to achieve with the TDS to get the hardness.

If you did the Peacocks you'd want to keep just males of the Peacocks (or Haps if you wanted to swap any in) but you could keep a mixed-gender group of Yellow Labs though may still end up with hybrids. The list I put together was classed as a timid tank so you rule out things like Dragon Bloods and OBs but if you wanted them you could try them but be prepared to pull them out if it goes nasty as the hybrids are meant to be more unpredictable.

Wills

 

[Fishies4Ever]

Ok I think I figured out a plan. These are the fish I am thinking about and if some of them don’t work that’s ok to and I’ll only do one of each except for the catfish.
Ruby red peacock
Bi- colour 500
Aulonocara turkis
Deep water hap
Protomelas marginatus
Otopharynx tetrastigma
Flavescent peacock
Petricolla catfish ( maybe like 3-4 )
And the would it be possible to do a giraffe Hap or no. I would only want to add one more fish after these so do you have any suggestions Wills? I know my water is soft but I really like the selection from lake Malawi. I herd that crushed coral can help raze the hardness of my water. I know I would have to keep it consistent but maybe I could keep some pre made jugs with the correct hardness for when I do water changes.

 

[Byron]

A calcareous sand substrate (like those intended for marine aquaria) is essential, and the rift lake salt preparations are needed. Rift lake cichlids do have a slight need for salt, it is present in the water of these lakes, and the preparations will provide all the mineral salts these fish require. @Wills can comment on species, he knows considerably more on these than I do.

 

[Wills]

Thanks @Byron though I am only at the reading stage at the moment!

@Fish384 most of that list looks ok the only one I'm not sure on is the Protomelas Marginatus as on second reading they can get quite big - maybe a Sciaenochromis Fryeri might be a good option?

I think the Giraffe Hap would get to big for a 4 foot tank they are a 10 inch fish - though absolutely stunning! One of the Lethrinops species might be a good choice? Meant to be a bit calmer than Peacocks so might need to be a bit careful but worth a bit of research.

In terms of dealing with the hardness Byron is right coral sand (or similar) with limestone structures in the tank and then some kind of product like these (or a combination)

https://www.seachem.com/malawi-victoria-buffer.php

Seachem - Cichlid Lake Salt

www.seachem.com

https://www.seachem.com/cichlid-trace.php

There are other brands that do similar products too but these would be what you add to your tap water when you do a water change - making sure you use either a hardness liquid test kit or a TDS reader which is a digital device to make sure the tank water matches the new tap water.

Wills

 

[Fishies4Ever]

That’s to bad I really liked the giraffe chiclid, what size tank do they need just for the one? What size tank does the Protomelas Marginatus need, because I would really like to have all the fish I chose and these two. I am not sure about the Sciaenochromis Fryeri because I want all the fish to look different from each other so each is unique and has it’s own kind of color so I can get as much variety as possible in the tank. The Lethrinops are pretty nice looking would you have a specific kind you would recommend? Thank you for all the advice and help you have given me, I greatly appreciate it!!

 

[Wills]

That’s to bad I really liked the giraffe chiclid, what size tank do they need just for the one? What size tank does the Protomelas Marginatus need, because I would really like to have all the fish I chose and these two. I am not sure about the Sciaenochromis Fryeri because I want all the fish to look different from each other so each is unique and has it’s own kind of color so I can get as much variety as possible in the tank. The Lethrinops are pretty nice looking would you have a specific kind you would recommend? Thank you for all the advice and help you have given me, I greatly appreciate it!!

For the bigger haps you need to be in the 6 foot 180 gallon range - though that’s before you get to the real predator haps. At 60 gallons you are only at an entry level size for Malawi so you are quite limited. Well worth the investment though.

Lethinthrops I don’t know too much about they can mix into male peacock hap tanks and don’t get too big. Some people keep them as their own group as there are some unique elements to them - females are quite colourful and overall quite peaceful so if you got a bigger tank you couldn’t mix them with the giraffe for example.

No probs on helping this is my outlet and stops me driving my wife crazy with fish talk haha

 

[Fishies4Ever]

The Lethrinops are very beautiful. I would probably go with the red cap. I was also researching for different options and I found these
Aulonocara rostrstum - does get kind of big but so do some of my other ideas like the flavescent
Super vc-10 hap - also gets kind of large
Out of the two I would probably go with the first one but either would be good it’s just difficult to choose especially when you don’t know how your specific fish will turn out.
What do you think of those?