Things Are Going Really Bad And My Class Is No Help

[leseera]

Let me first start of by saying that I'm in an Aquatic Science class and this is my senior year of high school. I was initally drawn to take this class because of the idea of raising a fish. I thought it would be fun and easy...and a blowoff class.
 
Well, at first we started off learning about fish basics(how to identify male from female, ammonia>nitrite>nitrate*later found out this is cycling*, aggressiveness in fish, fish anatomy, etc). This lasted all of 6 weeks. We spent the next 12 weeks of the semester learning about nothing but coastlines, tides, and other information that really is no use in raising a fish.
 
Well, we started the process of setting up our tanks(finally) this monday. Things were great and I was so excited to get my fish and to start cycling my tank(I didn't even know what cycling was at this point)...yes I know incredibly stupid of me to not have done any research on my own whatsoever.
 
On wednesday I happily put my fish into the tank along with my tankmate friend's fish. All in all we have 7 fish(five tetras and 2 corries) in our 20 gallon tank.
 
Over the process of the last 3 days, I've been doing my own research. I've learned that cycling with fish is cruel and hurts the fish. I've learned what cycling actually is. I've learned that even if you cycle with fish, 7 is NOT an okay number to start out with. Continuing on, I've learned that the reason all our fish are getting red fins all of a sudden is because of ridiculously high levels of ammonia. I've learned that the reason some fish are leaning down at such an odd angle and not moving that much is because of their bladders being messed up.
 
I have brought all of this up to a teacher(not my teacher...she's sick and on maternity leave. The sub is kind, but not much help), and although he's such a kind man, he's juggling having to instruct 2 classes of 20 kids on what to do all at once. I still don't know how to do a partial water change or how to know that I'm feeding my fish the appopriate amount.
 
...meanwhile I've also learned from a lot of my other friends who've taken the class in previous years that it's very normal for the "tester/cycling fish" to die and not a lot of people's fish even survive through cycling, which is just mind boggling to me...I mean really, pardon my language, but wtf? Why even use fish in the process?
 
I did(I say I did, but really the teacher did without showing me how) a partial water change because my ammonia levels were so ridiculously high during 1st period. During lunch I went in and checked on my ammonia levels, and they are the exact same still(is this normal?)
 
I also have a couple of empty tanks at home. I'm wondering if I should transfer some fish into a different tank so that there aren't so many in one tank.
 
My real question is, what should I do from here? How can I help my fish and my tankmate's fish through such ridiculous conditions?
 
There are a lot of people who haven't gotten their fish yet. I'm wondering if I should just tell people they can have some of our fish at this point.
 
thanks for reading this giant jumble of text and thank you so much, in advance for any and all help!
 
OH ALSO, I have some pictures of some of our fish's conditions. I can post those if that would help.
 
edit1 just found this on another topic:
Tank size: 20 gallon
pH: I don't know
ammonia: between 4 and 8
nitrite: I don't know
nitrate: I don't know
kH: don't even know what this is
gH: or this
tank temp: 82

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): fish are turning red in the fins, tetras are leaning down at odd angles, a lot of the fish aren't moving that much, my corries are going up to the top for oxygen it looks like

Volume and Frequency of water changes: tank started on monday. I did one water change this morning

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants: 5 tetras and 2 corydoras catfish

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): everything in our tank is new. There's a couple of rocks and some fake plants

 

[Jpat82]

Is your tank at school or at home? If it's at home you would be able to multiple water changes in large amounts and that sounds like what you need to do to bring down to ammonia levels. Also you said you have have tanks at home and you could put some media from one of those tanks in as it will have the bacteria you need to eat away at the ammonia.
Another thing test your tap water to see how much ammonia your starting with. I didn't realize my tap water had a 3pmm ammonia and could figure out why my levels would go down.
I'm sure others will give more advise and better detailed. Good luck.

 

[NorthEastFisherman]

Cories go to the top of the tank to breathe air, nothing is wrong with them when they do this. As for the tetras, they are extremely sensitive to bad water. This means tetras should be the very last fish you add to a tank. If you want these tetras to survive and even the cories you need to do a 75% or more water change. I would leave the water the day after but each day after that do 30% water changes until your filter is ready to break down ammonia. Right now what is happening is your fish and tank is producing more ammonia than bacteria which means your bacteria cant break down this harmful stuff fast enough. Im gussing your nitrites and nitrates are very high as well considering the amount of ammonia you have in your tank. I would also lower your water temperature down to 76-78 degrees because 82s a bit high for your fish right now. What type of tetras do you have? That could explain the odd leaning of your tetras. From what it sounds like, you added your fish way to early in your tank. Yes it is possible to keep these fish alive and have your tank get cycled but its going to be pretty stressful and youre going to get very agrivated. If theres anyway you can add some decorations, filter media, or even some fake plants from one of your existing tanks into this one then that should help alittle. If you do this make sure to keep the item in the water you got it from and dont let it dry out this will kill the bacteria and it will be pointless. Good luck, the best thing you can do is bring back the fish if possible and try and get your money back because these fish are most liekly going to end up dead and you wont get your money back.

 

[leseera]

Is your tank at school or at home? If it's at home you would be able to multiple water changes in large amounts and that sounds like what you need to do to bring down to ammonia levels. Also you said you have have tanks at home and you could put some media from one of those tanks in as it will have the bacteria you need to eat away at the ammonia.
Another thing test your tap water to see how much ammonia your starting with. I didn't realize my tap water had a 3pmm ammonia and could figure out why my levels would go down.
I'm sure others will give more advise and better detailed. Good luck.

thank you so so much for your reply! My tanks are at school unfortuantely!
 
And I'll test the ammonia level of the tap water first chance I get! How much of a water change should I try and do?
 
by media, do you mean fish?(sorry, very new to this)

Cories go to the top of the tank to breathe air, nothing is wrong with them when they do this. As for the tetras, they are extremely sensitive to bad water. This means tetras should be the very last fish you add to a tank. If you want these tetras to survive and even the cories you need to do a 75% or more water change. I would leave the water the day after but each day after that do 30% water changes until your filter is ready to break down ammonia. Right now what is happening is your fish and tank is producing more ammonia than bacteria which means your bacteria cant break down this harmful stuff fast enough. Im gussing your nitrites and nitrates are very high as well considering the amount of ammonia you have in your tank. I would also lower your water temperature down to 76-78 degrees because 82s a bit high for your fish right now. What type of tetras do you have? That could explain the odd leaning of your tetras. From what it sounds like, you added your fish way to early in your tank. Yes it is possible to keep these fish alive and have your tank get cycled but its going to be pretty stressful and youre going to get very agrivated. If theres anyway you can add some decorations, filter media, or even some fake plants from one of your existing tanks into this one then that should help alittle. If you do this make sure to keep the item in the water you got it from and dont let it dry out this will kill the bacteria and it will be pointless. Good luck, the best thing you can do is bring back the fish if possible and try and get your money back because these fish are most liekly going to end up dead and you wont get your money back.

I'm not so worried about losing my money. I only spent about 4 dollars on my fish. My partner spent maybe 6/7. I really just want what is best for them. Should I bring back all of the fish or just some?
 
and thank you so so much for the advice! I will try to this water change when I get back to school on monday. I'm really hoping my teacher will be back by then, and will let me know what I need to do!
 
the decorations I have at home are all dry and haven't been used in many years. Should I still add them?

 

[Jpat82]

Filter floss, caritages that are in your filter. I would put one in a container to your fish water from home and put into tank at school. I agree with what northeastfisherman said above about water changes. Fish in cycles take a while and can be stressful
For the fish and you. Hang in there though ok. If you do have high ammonia in you tap water pick up some Prime . It is a water declorinator, it also gets rid of ammonia, and some other stuff. I would put that in the new water when you do water changes.

If this is an assignment what is the teacher looking for? Is he or she looking for the tank just to be cycled? Or is it here's your tank, keep it up running, and at the end of the assignment you get graded and keep the fish?
If so adding stuff from home could get you in trouble.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

As a science teacher myself, this type of course infuriates me.

First of all, the instruction in this scenario needs to her far more intensive, and the first thing that you should have been taught in the "lab" portion of this course should have been to do a partial water change on an "empty" tank... Meaning no fish.

Second, the directive should have been on how to properly do a fish-in cycle. It needs to be done with minimal fish, not a bunch. And more over, having multiple students with fish in the same tank is just ludicrous. Too many fish in a fish-in cycle is the classic newbie experience.

Third, no offense, intended to your school or teachers, but this course should only ever be led by EXPERIENCED fish keepers. It would seem that the substitute has no idea what they are doing, and the regular teacher may or may not. Ultimately though, these are living creatures and if the goal is to learn how to properly take care of them. Then a certain level of knowledge is necessary for the instructor.


Finally, the idea of doing a fish-in cycle, with ridiculously high ammonia levels and having to wait two full days to do a water change is just dooming these fish to their deaths.



The best thing to door these fish, if you can't return them or add mature media from your home tanks, would be to add a bunch of LIVE plants to the tank like java fern. These plants can take the ammonia out of the water and increase the time needed between water changes. It certainly isn't ideal, but its something. In fact, adding enough plants is a way of doing a cycle -called "silent cycling". It's doubtful you could do that though go en your circumstances - too many fish and insufficient plants. Best wishes. Try to get into the building over the weekend to do a water change. If you can't get the water change done very soon, the fish may not survive until Monday.

 

[NorthEastFisherman]

Is your tank at school or at home? If it's at home you would be able to multiple water changes in large amounts and that sounds like what you need to do to bring down to ammonia levels. Also you said you have have tanks at home and you could put some media from one of those tanks in as it will have the bacteria you need to eat away at the ammonia.
Another thing test your tap water to see how much ammonia your starting with. I didn't realize my tap water had a 3pmm ammonia and could figure out why my levels would go down.
I'm sure others will give more advise and better detailed. Good luck.

thank you so so much for your reply! My tanks are at school unfortuantely!
 
And I'll test the ammonia level of the tap water first chance I get! How much of a water change should I try and do?
 
by media, do you mean fish?(sorry, very new to this)

>Cories go to the top of the tank to breathe air, nothing is wrong with them when they do this. As for the tetras, they are extremely sensitive to bad water. This means tetras should be the very last fish you add to a tank. If you want these tetras to survive and even the cories you need to do a 75% or more water change. I would leave the water the day after but each day after that do 30% water changes until your filter is ready to break down ammonia. Right now what is happening is your fish and tank is producing more ammonia than bacteria which means your bacteria cant break down this harmful stuff fast enough. Im gussing your nitrites and nitrates are very high as well considering the amount of ammonia you have in your tank. I would also lower your water temperature down to 76-78 degrees because 82s a bit high for your fish right now. What type of tetras do you have? That could explain the odd leaning of your tetras. From what it sounds like, you added your fish way to early in your tank. Yes it is possible to keep these fish alive and have your tank get cycled but its going to be pretty stressful and youre going to get very agrivated. If theres anyway you can add some decorations, filter media, or even some fake plants from one of your existing tanks into this one then that should help alittle. If you do this make sure to keep the item in the water you got it from and dont let it dry out this will kill the bacteria and it will be pointless. Good luck, the best thing you can do is bring back the fish if possible and try and get your money back because these fish are most liekly going to end up dead and you wont get your money back.

I'm not so worried about losing my money. I only spent about 4 dollars on my fish. My partner spent maybe 6/7. I really just want what is best for them. Should I bring back all of the fish or just some?
 
and thank you so so much for the advice! I will try to this water change when I get back to school on monday. I'm really hoping my teacher will be back by then, and will let me know what I need to do!
 
the decorations I have at home are all dry and haven't been used in many years. Should I still add them?
 

I was in the same situation with my first tank, i didnt understand why the fish kept dying so i thought they were just sick when i bought them. I kept buying more and more and within the first month or so when i had my fish i probably went through 30 fish for a total of like 40$ or more. Forget the dried out decorations, if you want to add them because you like them then you can but its up to you. If you can i suggest taking back all the fish and getting a zebra danio, gold barb, or maybe just a few feeder fish (1-3). These fish are pretty cheap (maybe not the gold barb) and will give just a bit of ammonia to start your bacteria. I actually have my three zebra danios from the second day i got my 15 gallon. I've had those hardy little fellas for like 5-6 months now and not any sickness signs when i had them! I would do 75% water change like i said, then add water conditioner. Keep doing 25-30% water changes everyday if you do decide to get the fish i suggested. Another thing you can do (many people on here says it doesnt work) is buy live bacteria. I used tetra safe start and was able to add my fish (not a smart idea but if your anxious it works) after the first week. I'd only use this if your ammonia is pretty ridiculous and it isnt going down with the water changes. Lots of people do tests right when they get their tank and see perfect results, THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOUR TANK IS READY. You want to wait at least a month before adding fish but in your case you already added some so like i said before, id return all the fish you bought and buy hardier fish (hardier means they can take the bad water conditions) like danios or feeder fish. You will see a huge spike in ammonia, it doesnt mean your water is really bad it just means your bacteria isnt keeping up. Then you will see ammonia decreasing and nitrite increasing, when you see that this is when your water changes are critical. Nitrite hurts fish more than ammonia and nitrate. So this is where you want to make sure youre on top of everything. Then once you see nitrite decreasing and a littlebit of ammonia .25ppm or so you'll then seen nitrate. Most established tanks have 40ppm or less. Its better to have lower nitrate obviously but its fine if you have inbetween 40ppm. Then once you see ammonia stabalized at a low amount, nitrite almost gone, and nitrate pretty steady and not increasing you can start adding your fish. I would suggest 3-4 fish a week. If you see your ammonia getting very huge spikes again then do more water changes til it goes down and you might even have to skip a week for adding fish. Then once its down add another 4 or so and keep doing that til you have your amount of fish you'd like. Remember 4fish doesnt mean 4 bala sharks or 4 gouramis. It means 4 or so inches of fish. 4 tetras would do good but i would suggest adding them at the end. And for the cories, i would suggest adding them midway so they can scavenge the scraps that the first fish dont eat. For your tank i would try to stay at about 18 inches of fish so if you do get a messy fish like a platy then you wont be crazily over your bioload. Im curious, what type of tetras did you get? If you have any questions ill be proud to answer them. Maybe another person will have some more better info than me.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The key to a fish-in cycle is to be ready, willing, and able to do a large water change at any moment.


The advice to return all the fish is a good one, but you may not be able to... Either because of the course requirements, or because the fish will be dead by Monday. Either way, if you can get the tank empty, you would be far better off finishing the cycle fishlessly. Perhaps you could even change the way the course works to do fishless cycles from now on, so that no more fish would need to die as a result of this course. If the keeper is unavailable to do a water change when needed, then a fish-in cycle is really not a practical (or ethical) way to go about cycling a tank. Just as much, if not more, can be learned during a fishless cycle as during a fish-in cycle, and it would be far less effected by long weekends, snow days, absences due to illness, etc. you may have an opportunity to truly make a positive change in this course, which I believe is a good one, in theory. It is only in practice that I am concerned with it.

 

[leseera]

Thank you guys for all of the advice!
 
I will update all of you guys on what happens next week.
I'm really hoping the fish will be alive on monday. If they are, I will for sure take them back first chance I get.
 
one of my friends has already been very unlucky. In her saltwater tank, two of her damsels have passed away.
 
As for the class itself, I will bring up fishless cycling to the aquatic science teachers on monday.
 
again, expect updates hopefully soon!

 

[snazy]

Is that what they are teaching kids these days, to experiment and learn using the suffering of live creatures? How are we going to learn to respect nature I don't know.
Good luck with your new project.  At least you sound like a caring person and whatever happens, it will be for reasons beyond your control.

 

[Lolly123]

At least someone I.E the OP seems to have some compassion for the fish and wants to try save the poor fish from the terrible environment they have been brought in to. Though I really don't hold out much hope based on the information that has been given.

I am absolutely disgusted that this type of project has been allowed to go ahead with a complete lack of experienced guidance and strict supervision. I normally try to refrain from expressing my anger, but this is just ridiculous.

If I were you, I wouldn't just be bringing it up with the teachers, I'd be making a full blown bloody complaint.

Good luck OP, I'm sorry you have been dumped in this situation without any real help or guidance from those who are supposed to be 'teaching' this course.

 

[Shelster]

I hope for the best for your fish on Monday, and can't believe that a course such as the one you are on have tanks doing 'fish in' cycling at a school which students don't have access to at the weekends!!

These tanks are clearly tanks of doom, and I'm totally not surprised where previous students have told you the fish don't survive.

I don't quite understand what this practice is meant to teach its students???

If I we you I would recommend your teachers read about how this effects fish when introduced to such tanks if they aren't already aware, which I'm hoping they aren't, but equally confused as to why not when running such course

Good luck!

 

[leseera]

update time!
 
Okay so all of my fish are still alive, and perhaps because of my prayers and everyone's good luck wishes, THEY ARE DOING MUCH BETTER!
 
first of all the tetras are actually barbs according to my tankmate(yeah, I'm an amateur to this stuff).
The redness has gone down and they aren't tilting anymore. They are swimming around quite happily now.
 
The corydoras are acting great too. They are no longer staying still and are dancing about in the tank.
 
My ammonia levels went down quite a bit over the weekend. I'm guessing because they may not have been fed.(I have no idea.)
 
Anyway, these fish are very hardy.
 
I talked to my teacher, who is finally back from maternity leave and asked her why the school doesn't do fishless cycling and told her my views on why I think it's cruel. She pretty much shrugged and said she just does what the other head of the department teacher does...apparently he doesn't like fishless cycling. Anyway, I haven't talked to him yet but I plan on doing so. I'm not going to lie...this guy takes his seniority pretty seriously and I don't think he will agree with me. He is not ignorant nor is he an immoral man...he just seems to like doing things his way.
 
Another of my friend's fish are dwindling. She now only has 2 of the 5 damsels she started out with...and some of her fish seem to have taken to cannibalism...
 
Apparently fishless cycling is allowed, just not talked about in the class as an option. I wish I had started out that way, as I can no longer take back my fish(nor can my tank mate). My emergency option is to just take some home and put them in a separate already set up tank that my mom has.
 
thank you all for the good luck wishes!

 

[snazy]

This is great news. I am really glad your fish are fine.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Glad to hear things are improving.   Go gentle on the other teacher...  Some can be quite sensitive when it comes to a teen telling them what needs to happen.  Trust me, I work with a BUNCH of them!
 
One issue that could certainly have been contributing to the problem is that you may have been overfeeding them as well.  (Its very easy to do, actually.)