the biffster
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would it be OK to use demijohn's
to do the home made co2 system
to do the home made co2 system
The Yeast Co2 Method
- Thread starter SuperColey1
- Start date
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im not sure sterilizing is important.. You are just wanting to remove any trace of alcohol as this is the biproduct that ultimately stops the process by killing the yeast.
AC .. could you very kindly explain how you set up the substrate in this tank
Would it be fair to say that your substrate is going to allow you better results here than most people simply adding diy co2 to basic tank substrate setup...
i'll just echo Andy's sentiments on the Purigen and water clarity. I decieded to get myself some on monday and after 2 days of use my water in just super clear!! i thought it was clear, but now it's like really crystal.
OP
OP
SuperColey1
Planted Section
OK. A few answers. The alcohol answer above is right r.e. cleaning. You need all traces of alcohol out as this kills the yeast. that is why the mix slows. The alcohol starts killing it. So when you change make sure it is good and clean. I just fill it up a couple of times from the cold tap and then shake it out.
On the substrate question - Yes I 'should' get better results than others but with any system. The nature of the substrate should help but it is not related to CO2 by yeast or pressurised. In those setups its more a case of the nutrient being soaked up and then if I forget to dose it is there.
It is more important in a non CO2 setup due to the content, the process within it etc.
In a Walstad setup the substrate is compost. The 'systems' relies on decomposition creating a little CO2 etc.
I have that part covered with the Tropica. It is an organic substrate and old. I have then taken one of Tom Barr's ingredients which is the Leonardite as an additional form of carbon at the bottom. The mulm is purely to seed the substrate initially but again provides some organic matter in the substrate to decompose.
However this substrate was added in Sepetmber 2007. It was for a pressurised setup and was used with pressurised setup until September 2009.
It will work with any style of setup due to its nature and in my opinion is a little more useful than a straight compost substrate as it has some advantageous elements in the Leonardite providing an alternate source of C and the clay being high CEC is can pull loads of nutrient in. It will also being organic decompose albeit slower than a standard compost.
The Walstad method and Diana herself talk about the substrate producing CO2 but I have not seen anyone other than Tom talk about how a non CO2 setup will actually 'rob' the KH and other sources of C over time to get their C source.
A non CO2 allied with zero water changes can in theory end up at KHzero which is not something to worry about but something to know about and be aware of. I do not know why there is no mention of this on the Walstad method. Maybe it is but I have never read the book
However adding the Leonardite at the bottom is quite a simple thing to do and just adds a little more 'food'. Plants are pretty clever in the sourcing of carbon.
The substrate ingredients and them going together can be seen here at the start of a journal in September 2007. Still the same substrate as today
http
/www.greenneedle.co.uk/Under1.html
Finaly Ian. Told ya so. Same reaction as I had when I first tried it a couple of years ago. I had clear water like you saw when you came round. However a couple of years ago when it was like that and people were banging on about how purigen makes water crystal clear I suggested only if it isn't clear in the first place. When I bought some my jaw dropped.
Amazing how little an amount of difference in actual makes such a difference to look at. With purigen in you quite literally are looking at some amzing 'opti-white' water
AC
On the substrate question - Yes I 'should' get better results than others but with any system. The nature of the substrate should help but it is not related to CO2 by yeast or pressurised. In those setups its more a case of the nutrient being soaked up and then if I forget to dose it is there.
It is more important in a non CO2 setup due to the content, the process within it etc.
In a Walstad setup the substrate is compost. The 'systems' relies on decomposition creating a little CO2 etc.
I have that part covered with the Tropica. It is an organic substrate and old. I have then taken one of Tom Barr's ingredients which is the Leonardite as an additional form of carbon at the bottom. The mulm is purely to seed the substrate initially but again provides some organic matter in the substrate to decompose.
However this substrate was added in Sepetmber 2007. It was for a pressurised setup and was used with pressurised setup until September 2009.
It will work with any style of setup due to its nature and in my opinion is a little more useful than a straight compost substrate as it has some advantageous elements in the Leonardite providing an alternate source of C and the clay being high CEC is can pull loads of nutrient in. It will also being organic decompose albeit slower than a standard compost.
The Walstad method and Diana herself talk about the substrate producing CO2 but I have not seen anyone other than Tom talk about how a non CO2 setup will actually 'rob' the KH and other sources of C over time to get their C source.
A non CO2 allied with zero water changes can in theory end up at KHzero which is not something to worry about but something to know about and be aware of. I do not know why there is no mention of this on the Walstad method. Maybe it is but I have never read the book
However adding the Leonardite at the bottom is quite a simple thing to do and just adds a little more 'food'. Plants are pretty clever in the sourcing of carbon.The substrate ingredients and them going together can be seen here at the start of a journal in September 2007. Still the same substrate as today
http
/www.greenneedle.co.uk/Under1.htmlFinaly Ian. Told ya so. Same reaction as I had when I first tried it a couple of years ago. I had clear water like you saw when you came round. However a couple of years ago when it was like that and people were banging on about how purigen makes water crystal clear I suggested only if it isn't clear in the first place. When I bought some my jaw dropped.
Amazing how little an amount of difference in actual makes such a difference to look at. With purigen in you quite literally are looking at some amzing 'opti-white' water
AC
The substrate ingredients and them going together can be seen here at the start of a journal in September 2007. Still the same substrate as today
http
good man
thanks AC! Once my GFs bday is out of the way 
it'll be spend spend spend for me tank would carib sea eco complete be pretty much the same as the tropica stuff?
OP
OP
SuperColey1
Planted Section
It should work. I think is high on cec so should be OK.
Leonardite underneath would be good. Sold as diamond black in the US I think.
You want the powder/granular and not the nectar (liquid)
Don't know who sells it but this is who makes it.
http/www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/diamondblack.html
AC
Leonardite underneath would be good. Sold as diamond black in the US I think.
You want the powder/granular and not the nectar (liquid)
Don't know who sells it but this is who makes it.
http
/www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/diamondblack.htmlAC
OP
OP
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Lol. Nice one Llj. gonna alter recipe again later today.
AC
AC
alex.wardle
Fishaholic
well i am in my 2nd full week now of you DIY system AC and i would like to say thanks. Plant growth is amazing, but i will let you be the judge of that.
1st week in
2nd week in
1st week in
2nd week in
alex.wardle
Fishaholic
I have just had a little tidy up and trimmed the Rotala Wallichii on the other side of the tank and the Cabomba Caroliniana in the pic
OP
OP
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Just thought I'd explain something before anyone just copies exaclty my recipe and bottle numbers etc.
I am trying to get a constant (or as closes as) 30ppm on MY setup. That means if succesful it will be suitable for MY 125ltr tank with my heavy plantmass and plant types etc.
That means others should use the recipe as a start point and then move it up or down as applicable. I would actually suggest starting lower than me (see below) and pushing it up as you gauge its output. No point starting out really high and waking up with dead fish (which I am pretty sure is a realistic risk now.)
How can you adjust you setup.
Well I am using a 3 bottle stagger.
You can alter the 'power' and longevity of the mix by altering the content.
So think about the sugar as the control. From that sugar you can get a control on the total cumulative output.
By that I mean if we talk about the cumulative as being the gram weight then 400g will only produce 400g worth CO2 whether it is run fast or slow.
With this in mind my setup uses 3 x 400g sugar.
To controle the longevity you add more or less yeast. So half a teaspoon may last 4 weeks. 1 teaspoon may last 1 week. However you need to find that perfect level where all 3 bottles are giving you the average close to 30ppm
So no use thinking. Ahh Run each bottle for 4 weeks and then a lot less changes. that is unless running at this level means you are reaching your desired ppm of CO2. You could even go for more bottles with longer periods but that sort of defeats the object as you are then changing more bottles and asving no time
So lets just stick with 3 bottles.
To reduce the total output reduce the total content of both the sugar and yeast. Some rough ideas
If 400g + 1 tsp = 1bps, then 200g + half tsp = 0.5bps
You can therefore reduce these contents to suit smaller tanks. I would suggest using more bottles for larger tanks rather than increasing above the 400g sugar.
To make the mix more potent, which works faster but for a shorter time then increase the yeast proportionally.
So if you were doing the 400g + 0.5 tsp on a 125Ltr but are now working on a 60ltr and therefore using 200g + 0.25tsp then where on the 125Ltr you jumped from 0.5 to 1tsp on the 60 setup you would jump from 0.25 to 0.5.
Experiment with your setup, not too much or you'll just have an algae fest but trial how it works. Get your spare diffuer and site it in a clear bowl of water. Setup a DIY kit and bubble counter and count the bubbles, try different mixes. Different ratios.
Why do you need a diffuser? You need to emulate what you are doing with the actual kits and tank. That means you need backpressure from the diffuser otherwise with no resistance at diffuser end you will get really fast bubbles
As a guide I am currently pushing back up to the 1 teaspoon of yeast on all 3 bottles. It may well have been a leak on one of the original bottles (which has been replaced) that caused the original mixes to finish so quickly. 1 leak in the system means that the whole lot can fail.
I may try a small setup on my 10ltr tank. that will use 3 x 500ml bottles with 100g sugar and 1g yeast. Probs another 500ml bottle for the bubbles counter. Need to get a little diffuser first though
AC
I am trying to get a constant (or as closes as) 30ppm on MY setup. That means if succesful it will be suitable for MY 125ltr tank with my heavy plantmass and plant types etc.
That means others should use the recipe as a start point and then move it up or down as applicable. I would actually suggest starting lower than me (see below) and pushing it up as you gauge its output. No point starting out really high and waking up with dead fish (which I am pretty sure is a realistic risk now.)
How can you adjust you setup.
Well I am using a 3 bottle stagger.
You can alter the 'power' and longevity of the mix by altering the content.
So think about the sugar as the control. From that sugar you can get a control on the total cumulative output.
By that I mean if we talk about the cumulative as being the gram weight then 400g will only produce 400g worth CO2 whether it is run fast or slow.
With this in mind my setup uses 3 x 400g sugar.
To controle the longevity you add more or less yeast. So half a teaspoon may last 4 weeks. 1 teaspoon may last 1 week. However you need to find that perfect level where all 3 bottles are giving you the average close to 30ppm
So no use thinking. Ahh Run each bottle for 4 weeks and then a lot less changes. that is unless running at this level means you are reaching your desired ppm of CO2. You could even go for more bottles with longer periods but that sort of defeats the object as you are then changing more bottles and asving no time
So lets just stick with 3 bottles.
To reduce the total output reduce the total content of both the sugar and yeast. Some rough ideas
If 400g + 1 tsp = 1bps, then 200g + half tsp = 0.5bps
You can therefore reduce these contents to suit smaller tanks. I would suggest using more bottles for larger tanks rather than increasing above the 400g sugar.
To make the mix more potent, which works faster but for a shorter time then increase the yeast proportionally.
So if you were doing the 400g + 0.5 tsp on a 125Ltr but are now working on a 60ltr and therefore using 200g + 0.25tsp then where on the 125Ltr you jumped from 0.5 to 1tsp on the 60 setup you would jump from 0.25 to 0.5.
Experiment with your setup, not too much or you'll just have an algae fest but trial how it works. Get your spare diffuer and site it in a clear bowl of water. Setup a DIY kit and bubble counter and count the bubbles, try different mixes. Different ratios.
Why do you need a diffuser? You need to emulate what you are doing with the actual kits and tank. That means you need backpressure from the diffuser otherwise with no resistance at diffuser end you will get really fast bubbles
As a guide I am currently pushing back up to the 1 teaspoon of yeast on all 3 bottles. It may well have been a leak on one of the original bottles (which has been replaced) that caused the original mixes to finish so quickly. 1 leak in the system means that the whole lot can fail.
I may try a small setup on my 10ltr tank. that will use 3 x 500ml bottles with 100g sugar and 1g yeast. Probs another 500ml bottle for the bubbles counter. Need to get a little diffuser first though
AC
What kind of diffuser you after mate? I have a jbl one you can have, you can change the size of it, it's the ladder type, I also have an old powerhead one (it might be to big for your 10l though!) it only pushes 68lph. Give me a shout if you want me to bring em up
Edit, I also have the Hagen ladder diffuser, as well.
Edit, I also have the Hagen ladder diffuser, as well.
OP
OP
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Lol. I'll probs be trying something inline on the 10ltr too. Just researching that. I may not bother with it TBH but the large tank is looking sweet.
Good growth but still a few algae spots here and there. All that fiddling with the levels. lol
AC
Good growth but still a few algae spots here and there. All that fiddling with the levels. lol
AC
OP
OP
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Best to get this up to date I suppose. Any changes will also be detailed in the first post so people can see what is happening at the moment.
A little timeline:
Recipe 400g sugar + 1 teaspoon yeast
29/9 - Setup the first of 2 bottles
1/10 - Setup second bottle
3/10 - Setup third bottle
Noticed the first bottle was already finished. Second didn't look too good either
5/10 - Changed first bottle recipe to 3/4 teaspoon yeast assuming that 1 teaspoon was dying out very quickly.
7/10 - Found a leak on second bottle. Probably the cause of the first 2 bottles dying so quickly. Replaced bottle but continued with the 3/4teaspoon method.
Conclusions - Leaks are hard to avoid With no leaks the system is now working quite well.
The 1 teaspoon yeast means the mix seems to last about 5 days at a decent rate. The 3/4 is better. About 1 bps from the 3 bottles on 3/4 teaspoon and the DC is remaining lime coloured.
What next?
Well I am satisfied that the 3 bottles-3/4 teaspoon mix will work fine and keep CO2 steady. However now I am going to try something else I normally say is 'not the point'.
My next little test is to see if I can get the 3 bottles working on a 3 week cycle rather than a 1 wek cycle. That means less total CO2 but less changes. Trying to maintain a lower (but stable) amount of CO2 and see if I have any problems there.
So for the next few weeks (started this last week) I will change 1 bottle each Saturday and therefore each bottle needs to last for 3 weeks. Yeast will be decreased to half a teaspoon.
I will post up some more pictures later. I have put an inline valve to each bottle, just cheap plastic ones similar to a needle valve, which means I can close the line to the bottle I am changing and therefore not let all the pressure out of the system while I do the change.
Will update on the 3 week cycle in 2 weeks time when it is complete.
AC
A little timeline:
Recipe 400g sugar + 1 teaspoon yeast
29/9 - Setup the first of 2 bottles
1/10 - Setup second bottle
3/10 - Setup third bottle
Noticed the first bottle was already finished. Second didn't look too good either
5/10 - Changed first bottle recipe to 3/4 teaspoon yeast assuming that 1 teaspoon was dying out very quickly.
7/10 - Found a leak on second bottle. Probably the cause of the first 2 bottles dying so quickly. Replaced bottle but continued with the 3/4teaspoon method.
Conclusions - Leaks are hard to avoid
With no leaks the system is now working quite well.The 1 teaspoon yeast means the mix seems to last about 5 days at a decent rate. The 3/4 is better. About 1 bps from the 3 bottles on 3/4 teaspoon and the DC is remaining lime coloured.
What next?
Well I am satisfied that the 3 bottles-3/4 teaspoon mix will work fine and keep CO2 steady. However now I am going to try something else I normally say is 'not the point'.
My next little test is to see if I can get the 3 bottles working on a 3 week cycle rather than a 1 wek cycle. That means less total CO2 but less changes. Trying to maintain a lower (but stable) amount of CO2 and see if I have any problems there.
So for the next few weeks (started this last week) I will change 1 bottle each Saturday and therefore each bottle needs to last for 3 weeks. Yeast will be decreased to half a teaspoon.
I will post up some more pictures later. I have put an inline valve to each bottle, just cheap plastic ones similar to a needle valve, which means I can close the line to the bottle I am changing and therefore not let all the pressure out of the system while I do the change.
Will update on the 3 week cycle in 2 weeks time when it is complete.
AC
Ryefish
Fish Herder
wondering if you have noticed any algae growth yet?
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