The Usual Questions

[CharlieC]

I've had my 63 litre (13.8 UK gal) tank set-up for 2 weeks and I am now ready to stock. The water chemistry seems about right for a community tank, at 7.2 pH (according to the test kit). Temp at 78F.

I'm thinking of having:

6 Neon Tetras
2 Angels
1 Upside Down Catfish
1 Pleco
1 Siamese Fighting Fish
1 Red Tailed Black Shark
2 Ram Cichlids

According to what I've read, all these should be fine in a community tank. Does anyone advise differently? What do people think about the number / tank size ratio?

On a different topic, I've read in a few places that aeration isn't all that important, yet I used to have it and I note that pumps and airstones are still readily available. Any views?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Charlie.

 

[Jamnog]

the nagels might get a bit big but other than that i think that sounds like an exelent set up be shure and put a barrier in the tank on the floor such as a long stone or something so that the red tail doesnt fight with the other catfish they can get a little terratorial. airation is not as important as people often think yes as the surface of the water tends to take in allot of oxigen and plants provide the rest. it does however help if the ballance is not struck properly. im shure others will offer their advice and i wish you the best of luck.



edit : doh! i ment angels i mister fumble mistak fingers today dunno what theyve put in my beer

 

[reg2k2]

I'm not sure if that's too much, I would def. change that pleco to a dwarf pleco, tho.
You can figure the surface area LxW, allowing 10sq.in. per inch of fish.

As for aeration, that's basically making sure the water surface is broken, which allows O2 to enter. Usu. ur filter sh. be sufficient for this, the bubbles from an airstone breaking at the top can add to it.

Oh, and angels are known to eat neons...believe it's part of their natural diet in the wild.

Not too sure about them nagels, tho.

 

[Alia]

I'm thinking of having:

6 Neon Tetras
2 Angels
1 Upside Down Catfish
1 Pleco
1 Siamese Fighting Fish
1 Red Tailed Black Shark
2 Ram Cichlids

Hmmm. Even with your tank size being 16.64 US gallons, you have far more adult fish inches there than you have gallons. The angels alone can reach up to 12 inches combined. Add just one more fish, the red-tailed black shark (6"), and you have exceeded the "rule of thumb". Plus compatibility issues.

Very good chance that angels will eat neons, as pointed out already, also angels like a deeper tank than most (not sure of your dimensions). Don't see a problem with upside-down catfish, but common pleco much too large, as suggested by reg2k2.

Betta splendens with angels does not sound like a good match, either, though that is just a gut reaction and I could be wrong.

Cichlids I feel need more space and privacy than your tank will provide and can be very territorial, esp. a breeding pair. Also my understanding that rams need extremely clean and stable soft water. The soft part could be done, I suppose, with peat maybe, and you could keep it really clean if you had lots of time and fewer fish, but you can't have the stability of a mature aquarium in a new set-up. I also think (but can't swear) that the cichlids and the red-tailed shark might be quarrelsome.

It feels to me like you've seen that a male betta can be kept in a community tank, as can angels, as can rams or a red-tailed black shark, but where it says that I think the unwritten assumption is that there are not other aggressive or territorial fish in the community.

The upside is that it's great that you've asked about this before actually loading up your aquarium, because there are people here who can tell you so much more than you can learn by reading descriptions of individual fish. Experience is a valuable but sometimes cruel teacher. Many of the fish you want are not inexpensive, and had you put them all in at once, I'm afraid many would have died the first week from the immaturity and rapid deteriorization of the water quality.

I've said enough, though, time for one of the real masters of this hobby to step in and share their experience.

 

[CFC]

I'm thinking of having:

6 Neon Tetras
2 Angels
1 Upside Down Catfish
1 Pleco
1 Siamese Fighting Fish
1 Red Tailed Black Shark
2 Ram Cichlids

I think Alia has said it all,good advice given.The only fish on your list that are suitable for a tank that size are the neons and the siamese fighter,i would get them and add 3 corydoras catfish but that would be about all you could have in there.

 

[gadazobe]

I agree with wholeheartedly with Alia. You want a lot of fish for a small tank. What kind of upside down catfish are you thinking of. If it's featherfins, they get way too big for your tank, they reach about 8-9 inches and the pleco can get to over 12 inches. That size tank does better with small fish - a small shoal of neons, a few corys for clean up (I just those fish and they do a great job) a small plec for algae and a betta for the shear fun of having one.

 

[CharlieC]

Thanks to everyone that took the time and trouble to reply. Some of the advice is conflicting, as I'd expect it to be, but the concensus seems to be that I'm proposing too many fish for the size of tank I have. I guess this really confirms what I already suspected, but hoped wouldn't be the case.

OK, the Angels (or Nagels) are out, and so is the Red-Tailed Black Shark.

So we have:

6 Neons
1 Betta Splendens
1 'small' Plec
1 Bronze Cory (or what about a Panda?)

I'm still really keen on having those Ram (or Bolivian Ram) Cichlids, but I take on-board what has been said (thanks, Alia). Sounds like they are really difficult to keep. If I left it a couple of months for the tank to get established, would it make any difference? Or is it really the case that the tank is just too small? Any more views?

If the Cichlids are definitely out, what do people suggest? I'm looking for colourful and interesting. I know what I don't want - Guppies (yes, they are colourful), Platies and Mollies. So what does that leave me?

Thanks all

 

[Alia]

6 Neons
1 Betta Splendens
1 'small' Plec
1 Bronze Cory (or what about a Panda?)

You are welcome, charliec, glad I could be of help. This looks to be a much more successful combination, with the caveat that cory cats are not good alone. Most aquarists recommend at least three, preferable same types. What type is your choice. My bronze corys are kind of jumpy. Observe them in the tanks at the lfs and note their behavior. My peppered corys are great.

I would still build up slowly, not add them all at once. You need to give the bacteria time to adjust each time you add an inch or two of fish, I think.

I'm still really keen on having those Ram (or Bolivian Ram) Cichlids

I'm looking for colourful and interesting

I totally know what you mean. I had corys and black skirt tetras in my twenty-eight and found myself looking for a more striking fish to add. I went with some lovely orange dwarf gouramis and I'm not at all disappointed. Those are the fish that are always out swimming around where I can see them. The tetras hide behind the plants and the corys just blend in too well.

If I left it a couple of months for the tank to get established, would it make any difference?

I am not an expert on cichlids, and I know only what I've read about Rams. I think it takes at least 6 months for an aquarium to "mature". Also, don't forget the soft water.

What my last worry would be is letting a betta establish himself as undisputed leader of the tank, then introducing the Rams, who are another "showy" fish. Maybe with plenty of caves and plants it could work -- the cichlid or betta forums would be more help with these questions.

That said, if you buy a male/female pair (Rams) and they are happy, I think they will breed, and then you will have problems for sure. Breeding cichlids are legendary for their aggression.

You're going to have a great tank and I know it's hard but thinking this all through ahead of time will save you (and your fish) so much anguish later. I for one applaud your flexibility and good sense.

Keep plugging away! You're almost there! Meanwhile, if your tank is fully cycled, why don't you get your little plec or a trio of juvenile corys and get things rolling chemistry wise? It seems to me that those are the hardier fish on your list. Maybe the betta, but he'll be full grown and tax the system more, I believe. Good luck!!

 

[Alia]

Forgot to mention a little compatibility search that might help you find mates for your betta or rams:

compatitbility link

HTH