The betta breeding project

[The Lumpfish Guy]

So I should breed my halfmoon female with my veiltail male to help reduce inbreeding?

I don't know, I don't breed Betta's and haven't looked into their genetics. But you need to make these decisions on the research you have done. And I cannot stress enough that good research beforehand can really help. What traits are dominant? which are recessive? which are coded for on multiple genes? what do you predict your offspring will be?
You need to do research on this yourself.
Here are a few links which might be able to get you started

http://bettasource.com/more-betta/genetics/basic-colour-genetics-of-betta
https://www.ingloriousbettas.com/betta-genetics-color-and-form.html

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

NB: all the links I posted I literally got of a 2 min search from google, there is plenty of information out there!

 

[Jessie J.]

Okay, thanks!

 

[NickAu]

Was the breeder at a local fish club or were they advertising somewhere?

Colin I get my Bettas here,
https://www.ibcbettas.org/about-betta-splendens/galleries/

PS

Please don't get me wrong I am not against people breeding Betta's in fact quite the opposite I'm all for it.

All I want is for people to do it right have all the equipment food and mason jars before they start and to use quality fish to improve the line. What the hobby dont need is second rate spoon head veil tails for example.

 

[Colin_T]

So I should breed my halfmoon female with my veiltail male to help reduce inbreeding?

If you got male and female fish from the same shop or even from a different shop within a month of each other, they are probably related. Most fish that come into the country come from the same suppliers in Asia and most if not all the shops in your town will be getting fish from them.

You breed whichever fish are nice and healthy and look good. If you mix up bloodlines it will usually give you healthier young, but it also undoes the work that has been put in by the original breeders. That is to say people have been line breeding Bettas to make bigger fins, round tails, unusual colours, etc. If you breed a short fin with a long fin or a yellow fish with a blue fish, you will get fish that could be yellow, blue or a different colour and have short, medium or long fins.

Most purists will say only breed halfmoons with halfmoons, and short fin with short fin, blue fish with blue fish, etc, but the choice is yours. However, if you produce ugly, deformed or short finned fish, they won't sell as readily and you could be stuck with hundreds or even thousands of young fish and nowhere to keep them.

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My girls have some severe fin-picking (tail stumps) from a few mosquitofish that were hiding un-noticed in the rocks. How much time should I give them to recover for breeding? I'm waiting two weeks for breeding but since there's fin picking should I wait longer?

As long as the tail and fins do not become infected, 2 weeks should be adequate.

I hope the Gambusia (mosquito fish) have been removed?

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If I put the male in the tank with all four females for breeding would this be a terrible idea?

You can put 4 females with the male (not the other way because the male has his territory and needs his bubblenest before he breeds) but watch them all closely and see which one he prefers. Once he has picked a partner remove the others. And watch the females in case they decide to gang up on him.

One way to introduce female Bettas to a male is to have the females in tanks next to the male so he can see them. Watch the fish and see which female the male spends most of his time showing off to and use her for breeding.

You can do the same thing with breeding nets that you hang inside the male's aquarium. Each female gets put into a breeding net and you monitor the fish and see which one the male prefers. You should also watch the females to make sure they respond to the male. If the female isn't interested the male might bash her.

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When should I start feeding the fries? I'm going to feed egg yolk. Should I wait a few days after they start free-swimming to feed them?

You start feeding the fry as soon as they become free swimming.

The eggs hatch after a few days and the fry either get put back in the nest by the male or they stick to the glass or plants. A few days later they start swimming around just underneath the surface and this is when you start feeding them.

Make sure you have a cover on top of the tank to keep the air above the water warm for the fry.

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Which male should I breed? The mustard or the royal blue? Which one do you think looks more breeding-quality, and which color is more popular/expensive, for ease of sales? Persia had some fin-picking when I first got him (shown on my avatar), but he's healed up now and has some impressive fins. He flares more often, sometimes at nothing.

We need pictures of the fish if you ask that type of question

Red Bettas and Blue Bettas are the most commonly sold. Ask your local pet shop which ones sell best because they will be the place buying them from you.

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Oh,I forgot. My royal blue was exposed to tapeworm so I'm not going to breed him.

Just treat all of your fish with Praziquantel (at the same time) to get rid of gill flukes and tapeworm. Treat them once a week for 3 treatments. Do the same with Levamisole (but on different days) to get rid of round/ thread worms.

Do a 75% water change 24 hours after treating them, and remove carbon from filters so it doesn't absorb the medication.

 

[NickAu]

If you got male and female fish from the same shop or even from a different shop within a month of each other, they are probably related

Sibling pairs are often used to " breed in " traits and to be honest I'm not a fan of breeding sibling pairs.

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

Sibling pairs are often used to " breed in " traits and to be honest I'm not a fan of breeding sibling pairs.

It's an easy way of doing so, there are longer and better ways but you know what they say, time is money and people are greedy

I'd never advocate for crossing siblings, when breeding any animals you want to aim for a high effective population size ( eg number of non related individuals (simplified)) at all times. So a starting broodstock of related individuals you don't actually have the diversity you think you do.
eg.
10 fish, 5 of which are siblings means instead of 10 fish you really have 5, (or 7 depending on your school of thought).
It's all about allele's in a population, but as well don't profile our fish we have to use the physiological traits which come about from those genes.

 

[NickAu]

Indeed when breeding you should aim at improving the line by breeding strong healthy fish not creating something simply because you can

Here's an example of a fish that should never have been created and in my opinion shouldnt be bred.
https://www.aquariadise.com/rosetail-betta-downside-of-beauty/

I own a Rose-tail and trust me when I say these fish need extra care because of their tails.

Hint.
The Veil tail gene is dominant

Read more here
http://bettacare101.com/genetics/

 

[Jessie J.]

If you got male and female fish from the same shop or even from a different shop within a month of each other, they are probably related. Most fish that come into the country come from the same suppliers in Asia and most if not all the shops in your town will be getting fish from them.

You breed whichever fish are nice and healthy and look good. If you mix up bloodlines it will usually give you healthier young, but it also undoes the work that has been put in by the original breeders. That is to say people have been line breeding Bettas to make bigger fins, round tails, unusual colours, etc. If you breed a short fin with a long fin or a yellow fish with a blue fish, you will get fish that could be yellow, blue or a different colour and have short, medium or long fins.

Most purists will say only breed halfmoons with halfmoons, and short fin with short fin, blue fish with blue fish, etc, but the choice is yours. However, if you produce ugly, deformed or short finned fish, they won't sell as readily and you could be stuck with hundreds or even thousands of young fish and nowhere to keep them.

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As long as the tail and fins do not become infected, 2 weeks should be adequate.

I hope the Gambusia (mosquito fish) have been removed?

-----------------------

You can put 4 females with the male (not the other way because the male has his territory and needs his bubblenest before he breeds) but watch them all closely and see which one he prefers. Once he has picked a partner remove the others. And watch the females in case they decide to gang up on him.

One way to introduce female Bettas to a male is to have the females in tanks next to the male so he can see them. Watch the fish and see which female the male spends most of his time showing off to and use her for breeding.

You can do the same thing with breeding nets that you hang inside the male's aquarium. Each female gets put into a breeding net and you monitor the fish and see which one the male prefers. You should also watch the females to make sure they respond to the male. If the female isn't interested the male might bash her.

-----------------------

You start feeding the fry as soon as they become free swimming.

The eggs hatch after a few days and the fry either get put back in the nest by the male or they stick to the glass or plants. A few days later they start swimming around just underneath the surface and this is when you start feeding them.

Make sure you have a cover on top of the tank to keep the air above the water warm for the fry.

-----------------------

We need pictures of the fish if you ask that type of question

Red Bettas and Blue Bettas are the most commonly sold. Ask your local pet shop which ones sell best because they will be the place buying them from you.

-----------------------

Just treat all of your fish with Praziquantel (at the same time) to get rid of gill flukes and tapeworm. Treat them once a week for 3 treatments. Do the same with Levamisole (but on different days) to get rid of round/ thread worms.

Do a 75% water change 24 hours after treating them, and remove carbon from filters so it doesn't absorb the medication.

Yes, I finally got all of the mosquitofish out; one of the males was especially tricky; he would go and hide in the rocks whenever the lid opened. Thanks!

 

[Jessie J.]

My smallest female (about one inch long) has reoccurring dark bands over the sides of her body, and sometimes she doesn't. I thought those only appeared when she was in the presence of the male and ready to breed?

 

[Jessie J.]

So I floated a few clear cups in the male's tanks (I situated another tank for my other male betta to breed). One of the males, Moscow, was really interested, flaring and displaying his tail fins at another royal blue veiltail called Empress. But Persia seems really clueless about what's going on. He will glance at the female, and after 20 minutes to an hour he still pays her no attention. I have tried different females but his reaction's always the same. I had to put a thin towel over the front of the tank so I could observe him, because he kept getting distracted when I was looking at his tank. Is he just going to breed eventually or am I doing something wrong? I have been feeding them both well and they have desirable parameters. I'm buffing them up with live foods, as I read was beneficial.

 

[Cichlid4life]

If you got male and female fish from the same shop or even from a different shop within a month of each other, they are probably related. Most fish that come into the country come from the same suppliers in Asia and most if not all the shops in your town will be getting fish from them.

You breed whichever fish are nice and healthy and look good. If you mix up bloodlines it will usually give you healthier young, but it also undoes the work that has been put in by the original breeders. That is to say people have been line breeding Bettas to make bigger fins, round tails, unusual colours, etc. If you breed a short fin with a long fin or a yellow fish with a blue fish, you will get fish that could be yellow, blue or a different colour and have short, medium or long fins.

Most purists will say only breed halfmoons with halfmoons, and short fin with short fin, blue fish with blue fish, etc, but the choice is yours. However, if you produce ugly, deformed or short finned fish, they won't sell as readily and you could be stuck with hundreds or even thousands of young fish and nowhere to keep them.

-----------------------

As long as the tail and fins do not become infected, 2 weeks should be adequate.

I hope the Gambusia (mosquito fish) have been removed?

-----------------------

You can put 4 females with the male (not the other way because the male has his territory and needs his bubblenest before he breeds) but watch them all closely and see which one he prefers. Once he has picked a partner remove the others. And watch the females in case they decide to gang up on him.

One way to introduce female Bettas to a male is to have the females in tanks next to the male so he can see them. Watch the fish and see which female the male spends most of his time showing off to and use her for breeding.

You can do the same thing with breeding nets that you hang inside the male's aquarium. Each female gets put into a breeding net and you monitor the fish and see which one the male prefers. You should also watch the females to make sure they respond to the male. If the female isn't interested the male might bash her.

-----------------------

You start feeding the fry as soon as they become free swimming.

The eggs hatch after a few days and the fry either get put back in the nest by the male or they stick to the glass or plants. A few days later they start swimming around just underneath the surface and this is when you start feeding them.

Make sure you have a cover on top of the tank to keep the air above the water warm for the fry.

-----------------------

We need pictures of the fish if you ask that type of question

Red Bettas and Blue Bettas are the most commonly sold. Ask your local pet shop which ones sell best because they will be the place buying them from you.

-----------------------

Just treat all of your fish with Praziquantel (at the same time) to get rid of gill flukes and tapeworm. Treat them once a week for 3 treatments. Do the same with Levamisole (but on different days) to get rid of round/ thread worms.

Do a 75% water change 24 hours after treating them, and remove carbon from filters so it doesn't absorb the medication.

i am not going to bother read all of what you just typed, but i sure know it must of made you hands hurt from all that typing!

 

[Jessie J.]

Persia is now flaring a bit and chasing the female around in her cup.

 

[Cichlid4life]

cool

 

[Jessie J.]

So I am going to breed Moscow, the royal blue, with Empress, another royal blue. I have her in an open-top vase in Moscow's tank right now. I will wait till morning for a bubble nest, then release the female. What should I do if there's no bubble nest? He seems very engaged in trying to impress Empress, flaring and trying to fan his tail, but what if he doesn't make one? Should I give them another day, or what?