Tap water test results

[OldTimeFisher]

Another question, I'm also researching Fluval plant and shrimp stratum. They claim that is helps to promote neutral to slightly acidic pH within the aquarium. Do you have any incite on this @Byron?

 

[Byron]

Ok, so maybe I'm just over thinking this.
I have placed a large glass of tap water on the side and will allow it to sit for a few days and test the pH again.
Another thought is to do an initial start up of the tank with a 50/50% RO to tap water or a greater percentage of RO that would get the pH down around an 8.0. Then just do smaller water changes with tap water as the tank settles in and see where that leads me. I will have plants and driftwood in the aquarium that should help to lower or buffer the pH also, correct?

The unknown here is the effect of the KH. At 7 dKH the pH buffering is significant, but how is this going to play out at water changes? Do the pH test after 24 hours, that's a good idea.

Plants use minerals, and the GH at 2 dH will provide this. I don't know what degree if any KH will be affected. Organic matter such as wood, dried leaves, peat and obvious natural fish excrement tends to lower pH. But the KH works to prevent this.

Another question, I'm also researching Fluval plant and shrimp stratum. They claim that is helps to promote neutral to slightly acidic pH within the aquarium. Do you have any incite on this @Byron?

Not really as I have never used these products. But this is one reason I don't recommend them...just what/how are they doing this? Adding a substance to the water in an aquarium that does this sort of manipulation is something I tend to avoid at all cost. Natural increasing or decreasing of GH/KH/pH is one thing, but artificially targetting the pH is quite another. The pH adjusting chemicals usually fail to work simply because they are not dealing with the real factors, the GH and KH. The pH will tend to follow GH/KH.

 

[OldTimeFisher]

Not really as I have never used these products. But this is one reason I don't recommend them...just what/how are they doing this? Adding a substance to the water in an aquarium that does this sort of manipulation is something I tend to avoid at all cost. Natural increasing or decreasing of GH/KH/pH is one thing, but artificially targetting the pH is quite another. The pH adjusting chemicals usually fail to work simply because they are not dealing with the real factors, the GH and KH. The pH will tend to follow GH/KH.

According to the Fluval website they claim that this substrate is all natural. Here is a clipper from their website,

"Fluval Stratum is made of mineral rich volcanic soil
collected from the mineral-rich foothills of Mount Aso Volcano in Japan, Fluval Stratum makes an ideal alternative substrate for planted aquariums and those featuring shrimp. It stimulates strong aquarium plant growth and promotes neutral to mildly acidic pH."

What type(s) of substrate do you use Byron?

 

[Byron]

According to the Fluval website they claim that this substrate is all natural. Here is a clipper from their website,

"Fluval Stratum is made of mineral rich volcanic soil
collected from the mineral-rich foothills of Mount Aso Volcano in Japan, Fluval Stratum makes an ideal alternative substrate for planted aquariums and those featuring shrimp. It stimulates strong aquarium plant growth and promotes neutral to mildly acidic pH."

What type(s) of substrate do you use Byron?

Several years ago I was "persuaded" by I assume well-meaning members (on another forum) to try an enriched substrate, so I went with Flourite (which is basically the same as Eco-complete). Very minimal plant improvement in two years, but the roughness plus probably a bacterial issue prevented me from keeping cories in this tank. I tore the tank down after two years, dumped the Flourite in a hole in the back yard, and went with sand. I don't know if Fluval has benefits or not, some will swear it does but that is objective (or is it subjective?). The fact is that aquatic plants in an aquarium will grow well in most any substrate, and the granular size is the important factor. The smaller the better. I use Quikrete Play Sand in all my tanks, and wouldn't even remotely consider anything else. I previously used fine gravel; this is OK for plants, but not some fish. It is easy enough to use substrate tabs for larger plants. My former 5-foot tank pictured below didn't have plant problems with sand.

 

[OldTimeFisher]

Thanks for your incite @Byron. You have been a big help. The Quikrete Play Sand sounds like a much better alternative. Your tank is beautiful by the way! Thanks for sharing your aquarium.
What are your thoughts on using crushed lava stone below the sand bed?

 

[Byron]

Thanks for your incite @Byron. You have been a big help. The Quikrete Play Sand sounds like a much better alternative. Your tank is beautiful by the way! Thanks for sharing your aquarium.
What are your thoughts on using crushed lava stone below the sand bed?

Never. Lava stone will dissolve minerals, this raises the GH/pH. I have never thought these additives wise. The less we interfere with natural processes, whether chemistry or biology, the less trouble.

 

[OldTimeFisher]

@Byron, another question. Are you adding anything to your change out water or just straight tap water?

 

[Byron]

@Byron, another question. Are you adding anything to your change out water or just straight tap water?

I use a conditioner, but nothing else. API's Tap Water Conditioner is in my view the best, as it is the most highly concentrated (so less is needed) and I only have chlorine to deal with. I do add plant fertilizer after, but that's it.

 

[OldTimeFisher]

I use a conditioner, but nothing else. API's Tap Water Conditioner is in my view the best, as it is the most highly concentrated (so less is needed) and I only have chlorine to deal with. I do add plant fertilizer after, but that's it.

Thanks Byron, you've been a tremendous help!

 

[OldTimeFisher]

Just to update you @Byron. After allowing the tap water to sit out for 24 hrs, the pH went from a 9.0 to 8.6. I'm going to allow the same glass to sit out for another 24 hrs for a total of 48 hrs and test it again.

 

[OldTimeFisher]

48 hours later and the tap water is now down to 8.4 pH. Once the tank is set up with plants and driftwood the pH should further come down as the tank settles in correct?
I plan on letting the tank cycle for a month or longer with just the substrate (play sand, gravel and rocks) plants and driftwood. I would like for the plants to have decent grow out and be able to process pure ammonia (silent cycle) before stocking any fish.
Is this a recommended way to go @Byron?

 

[Byron]

48 hours later and the tap water is now down to 8.4 pH. Once the tank is set up with plants and driftwood the pH should further come down as the tank settles in correct?
I plan on letting the tank cycle for a month or longer with just the substrate (play sand, gravel and rocks) plants and driftwood. I would like for the plants to have decent grow out and be able to process pure ammonia (silent cycle) before stocking any fish.
Is this a recommended way to go @Byron?

Yes. I have never used any "cycling" methods in 30+ years except live plants. It is the safest and fastest.

The pH is difficult to predict. I have no idea why it is so high initially, when it lowers this much so quickly, and you did say they told you nothing was being added to increase the pH (this if being done would explain it).

 

[OldTimeFisher]

That's correct, I talked to the supervisor at the water authority and he told me that nothing but chlorine was being added to the water that I receive.
When preforming a silent cycle with plants, do you add 2 to 3 ml of pure ammonia to see if the plants are up taking it?

 

[Byron]

That's correct, I talked to the supervisor at the water authority and he told me that nothing but chlorine was being added to the water that I receive.
When preforming a silent cycle with plants, do you add 2 to 3 ml of pure ammonia to see if the plants are up taking it?

No. This level has the risk of causing detriment to the plants. Ammonia produced naturally from fish respiration and decomposition of the organics is no where near this level, and sufficient plants (especially floating again) can easily handle all of it. But a sudden influx of artificial ammonia is a very different thing. Diana Walstad (2003) researched the scientific studies and concluded that sensitive aquatic plants would be harmed by about 1 mg/l [=ppm] ammonia, while some less sensitive seemed able to tolerate concentrations as high as 26 mg/l. Personally, I would not put this to the test.

I know some members advise using ammonia even with plants. I've never understood this; we know ammonia kills everything if it is high enough, but more to the point, you do not want to be encouraging AOB (ammonia oxidizing bacteria) with plants present anyway, because it can work to hinder the plants. Plants are faster at taking up ammonia than the AOB, that has been scientifically determined, but obviously this applies more to the fast growing plants. So any attempt to somehow get AOB thriving is counter-productive.

 

[OldTimeFisher]

Thank you once again @Byron. I have been doing so much research and a lot of it is contradictory and becomes very confusing. I will stick to your tried and true methods. I just finished tearing down the reef display tank and will start tearing down the sump tomorrow. Shop vacs are a wonderful piece of equipment lol. I had 3 fish left (a one spot foxtail, a chevron tang and a clown fish). My wife took them this afternoon to a nearby fish store and they gave us a $100 dollar store credit. Can't beat that!!
Heck, I didn't pay that much for all 3 of them 14 years ago lol.
Thanks again! I'm sure there will be more questions for you as things progress.