Tank Started But Need Some Help.

ibuyafish

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So, I'm new and I mean new, new. I have never owned a fish before and recently my girl and I decided to go ahead and get started. I have always loved fish and have always wanted to get a setup going, I just never realized how much work was involved.

Long story short, we went out and bought a 10 gallon kit from petsmart and it came with;

10 Gallon tank
Filter/filter pump thingy (Great terminology)
Water heater
Net
Light cover with bulbs
chemicals
(we bought)
10 lbs of gravel
air pump and stone.
API Master test kit (I couldn't stand the idea of strips at that price)

I got everything setup, treated the water with the two packets one with conditioner and one with stress zyme.

Tank Readings:
Temp: 80 F
pH: 7.5
Ammonia: .25ppm-.50ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: >5 (didn't seem to be 0, but #41#### close)

Is my tank going in the right direction or am I missing something? I don't feel like killing fish, so I want to make sure that this is normal when starting out a tank and using chemicals. I do not own any fish yet.

Thank you for your time,

Josh
 
Hi there welcome to the forum and the hobby! I think a good place for you to get started is here http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/ this is the beginners resources and covers everything you need to know :)

I would recommend a fishless cycle, which is where you add a few drops of ammonia to your tank each day and test the water with your master kit every 12 hours. It is fantastic that you have btw! the strips are not as good as the drops so glad you got the master kit!. This process makes it very easy for you and also will save you any deaths or diseases that arise from using fish to cycle the tank. When people use fish to cycle tanks the fishes poo creates ammonia which is highly toxic to the fish and then bacteria grows in the filter which eats the ammonia and makes nitrite which is still toxic to fish so more bacteria grow in the filter and turns this into nitrate which is only toxic in high doses to fish but it builds up over time so we do water changes to stop it poisoning the fish. So the fishless way take the fish out of the equation and just use pure ammonia to simulate fish poo so while the filter is developing there is nothing but the water and decor in the tank nothing living that could get poisoned or stressed. Where as if fish are used to cycle a tank there is a big chance the fish will die or get a disease at some point of the cycle, it also means that you do large 50%+ water changes each day to keep the ammonia and nitrite down in the cycling stages.

Hope thats made sense the articles in the beginners resources section go much more in depth and will be able to help you learn more than my paragraph but hoping I have covered the basics for you. :)

Do you have any ideas of what type of fish you want to have in there? A few ideas for you could be some dwarf cichlids like the various apistogramma species, honey gourami, corydora catfish (pygmy cories work great in a 10g), rasboras (again pygmy rasobras are good in a 10g), pygmy gourami (you can see a pattern here?) how about some shrimp cherry shrimp do well in 10g or there are ghost or tiger shrimp as well. :)

Wills
 
Welcome to the forum Ibuyafish.
Please have a quick read through the fishless cycling thread and come back with any questions you may still have about how to go about it. It can be a bit overwhelming at first so don't let that bother you. We can break it down into easy to follow steps and, I hope, help you actually understand what you are doing with the process.

A 10 gallon is about as small as most people can start with and still do well. Once you have some experience, you can get away with keeping a 5 gallon and still have good results but a 10 is much more stable. As Wills implied, the choice of fish for a 10 are somewhat limiting but there are lots of nice fish that can be kept in a 10. I always have several of them running for growing fry, quarantining new fish, keeping smaller fish, etc. I even have a few small fish that breed well in a 10 and would be lost in a bigger tank.
 
I was reading those beginner forums but as I was reading I got a little overwhelmed with the amount of data and information and i just needed a simple paragraph to get me on my way, thank you. I got lost in the nitrogen cycle and fishless cycling. But I understand now that the conditioner only gets the water ready for fish, but not the bacteria so I shall go and buy some pure ammonia and begin the cycle.

But something that has been getting to me are water changes. After you empty part of the tank what water do you put back in? Do you pre-condition tap water by using conditoner and letting it sit for a couple of days before changing? Do you use unconditioned distilled water, or just RO water?

As for our fish selection we were going to start out with a 5 neon tetras. The math should work out to be 2" of fish for the five tetras, and then we were planning on adding two or three more fish to that.
 
In normal water changing technique you use a think called a gravel cleaning siphon to remove some percentage of water from the tank. This has the double benefit if allowing you to churn up the debris out of the gravel and to have a lot of that debris flow out of the aquarium with the water that's leaving.

Then, as you are asking about, you are faced with what water should replace it. Normally, if at all possible, you want tap water to be the starting point of the replacement because it will usually have not only a number of good minerals (such as Calcium) that your fish and tank need, but also because if this is always your replacement water source, then it will better match the current tank water in these "hardness" characteristics.

The practice of "aging" tap water is often confusing to beginners because it used to be done to allow chlorine (which is a gas) to "gas off" into the atmosphere. This is usually no longer done because many water districts have gone to a more complicated schedule of often using "chloramines" (compounds containing both chlorine and ammonia) to lower the bacterial counts in the pipe system. Modern conditioner products will instantly remove both chlorine and chloramine and have other benefits as well, without being overly expensive, and so its considered to be safe practice, especially for beginners, to always dose the tap water with a conditioner (ie. a "dechlorination product.")

An additional concern during the first 6 months of the life of a tank is that the two species of beneficial bacteria that we must grow in the filter will be very fragile during this time period and can be potentially wiped out if the water authority unpredictably overdoses the chloramine or chlorines. For this reason we often recommend that conditioner be dosed at 1.5x or 2x whatever the bottle recommends. Since this gets in to using larger amounts of the product, we also recommend a more concentrated product. For beginners, a good choice is Seachem Prime since it is both very concentrated and also very reliable at other functions such as handling heavy metals and detoxifying ammonia. For mature tanks beyond a year, some aquarists choose to use pond dechlor products in an attempt to take advantage of its higher concentration but possibly lower cost than Prime.

OK, whew! So we put the tap water in the bucket and add some portion of a capful of Seachem Prime that we've calculated to be 1.5x the recommended dosing, roughly. What next?

Well, in a fishless cycling or young tank we might also want to help things along by "temperature matching," which is done pretty roughly simply by using your hand to decide if the tap water and the tank water are roughly the same. For fishless cycling this can help your bacterial reproduction to keep right on going, despite a water change (Fishless Cycles don't normally have many water changes, just sometimes to solve perhaps a pH problem.) Once the tank has fish, then the issue of temperature matching becomes more an issue of not shocking the fish. Changes of cold tap water less than 15 or 20% will not usually result in enough temperature drop to matter, so heating may not be needed. Larger changes will benefit from the lowered risk (aquarists often place greater emphasis on tanks with expensive or valued fish) by doing rough temperature matching. Its a slightly controversial topic among experienced aquarists (they are split between those who feel more safe with temp matching and those who love to give their fish bursts of cold water!) but for beginners many of us feel that rough temp matching is good practice.

OK, so tap water at the rough matching temp plus a good conditioner in the right amount... we've beat this topic to death, right? :lol:

Well, there's one more tidbit: Especially aquarists who have pretty big tanks or aquarists with bad backs will sometimes have a type of siphon hose system that allows them to refill the tank directly from a distant faucet in the house. (Its basically a long hose with the right type of adapter for the faucet.) Fishkeepers who do this are generally advised to dose the conditioner in an amount that would treat the entire water volume of the tank, so that any substances in the tank that "use up" the conditioner treatment will not stop it from applying the full dechlorination/dechloramination process. So, dose for the full tank when refilling via hose rather than with buckets.

This outline I've given does not cover special cases where the incoming tap water is extreme in some way, but it covers the vast majority of normal cases, so I hope this will help get you started.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Wow, thank you all so much for taking the time to help me. But for some reason, my tank has become cloudy? The manual inside the tank said that it may become cloudy but will return to normal shortly, is this right or should I do a water change?
 
But I understand now that the conditioner only gets the water ready for fish, but not the bacteria so I shall go and buy some pure ammonia and begin the cycle.

Hooray!! Your well on your way now :) Your stocking sounds good as well with the neons you could try some dwarf cichlids like Apistos a pair or trio would work nice in a 10g tank and they are very beautiful fish there are many varieties and species of apisto they are a great fish!
Wills
 
A new tank will often get a bit cloudy and it will clear quickly. Right now your tank is not ready for fish. Try to get some of the pure ammonia and start doing the fishless cycle as the directions suggest. We are here to help you get through it and get your tank off on the right foot. By the time your tank is cycled, we can help a lot more with choosing compatible fish and similar subjects. Starting a new tank is much easier than it seems at a first glance but with just a little patience, you can do it quite well.
 
I added the ammonia, it is slowly lowering in level and the nitrite and nitrate levels are rising so I take it the cycle is making its way. The tank is slowly clearing up as well but I'm getting worried about temperature.

When I checked the tank this morning it was at 76.5F and the heater was running. I turned on the light and the temperature slowly rose back up to 80 F. Is this kind of temperature movement a bad thing or normal shift between days?
 
A marginal heater will be helped by the heat from the lights. It sounds like the heater is a bit too small for your tank with the temperature you are trying to maintain and the temperature of the room the tank is in. The lamp is making up the difference. If you can afford to do so, it would be a good idea to either buy another larger heater to replace the present one or to buy another heater to use with the one you already have. For typical conditions, with a room temperature that is close to the desired tank temperature, a heater of only 5 watts per gallon is required. If you are like me and run the heat in the room quite cool in winter, that will not be enough heat to maintain tank temperatures. Then larger heaters will be needed.
 
Alright, as I have been reading the forums I have gotten a little confused with where the bacteria lives. I have a TopFin 10 filter that came with the kit I bought; the filter itself has carbon in it surrounded by a cloth like pouch.

Does the bacteria live in with the carbon or on the pouch itself?

The manual that came with the filter said to replace the filter cartridge about once a month, but if I were to do that I would just throw away the bacteria. So when the time comes to change it, should I just dump out the carbon and refill the pouch or should I change the whole thing?
 
When it comes time to change the filter cartridge, don't do it. Instead you take the filter and rinse it out in old tank water, the water removed during a water change. Then you put that cartridge right back where you got it. The idea of constantly changing filter cartridges is promoted by filter manufacturers as a way to sell the cartridges. I have some Whisper cartridges, the exact same kind you have, that have been in their filters for several years. When they fall apart, I take the old cloth bag and stuff it inside the new one, right where the trace of carbon would go.
 
It has been a couple of days now and the water in my tank is still very cloudy, is this something I should be concerned about our should I just leave it until the cycle is done?
 
It is no problem really. A slightly cloudy tank is fairly common while you are doing a fishless cycle. If you just keep moving forward to get the tank cycled, the cloudiness will go away on its own.
 
Did you rinse the sand or gravel (substrate) well?

If so, have faith it will all be ok soon :blink:

I recently set up a tank, and since then (about 3 months ago) i have literally read these forums daily. I love the place, and find myself reading almost every post even though my setup and current fish stocking is less than 1% of the content here!

When you read that some people have a 'Fish Room', and start to think 'thats normal... like a bedroom or bathroom right?' you know you hooked!

Welcome

~Paul
 

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