Tank Overcrowding

[NewTankGuy]

Hello, So I am new to keeping aquariums, and I wanted a second opinion on my tank.  So for the details, I have a 29 gallon freshwater, with all levels looking great.  Whisper 40 filter, pH is about 6.4-6.6, Nitrate, Nitrate, Ammonia all at 0, and I have 3 live plants and several fake plants.  I did a fish-less cycle, and then slowly added my fish where the tank has been "fully stocked" for about 4 weeks now.  So here is my question, I have in my tank (all juveniles) 3 Anglefish, 2 Dwarf Gourami's, 7 tiger barbs (3 tiger striped, and 4 green), and a Plecostomus.  Everyone seems very happy and content together, there is some chasing but no issues with fin nipping or big aggressive moves or anything like that.  Actually they seems to really have a great tank "personality/community" going for them.  Now I know that by full grown measurements that the tank is slightly overcrowded, however, I wanted to know if I stay very ontop of my maintenance, water changes (one or two a week at about 20-25%), and stress additives/conditioners, can I keep everyone in the 29 gallon, or is this only going to end badly?  Also if I absolutely have to move them into a bigger tank seeing that I don't want to give any away, how long do I have until I HAVE to switch them, and what size should I go to?

 

[ShinySideUp]

I'm surprised your nitrate is zero as your nitrites must have turned into something so as not to be there.
 
Your pleco will get big, really big, at least a foot long and weighing pounds...not, of course, in a 29 gallon tank where it will stunt and die early. If it's small now you have probably got a year, two at most, before damage starts to accumulate.
 
As for the other fish, it depends on the dimensions of the tank as much as the volume. Angels need tall tanks and once they make sexual maturity they will get feisty with each other and everything else. Dwarf gouramis are only dwarves when compared with other gouramis, that doesn't necessarily make them small and I believe they can reach 3.5 inches long. Your tiger barbs may become aggressive if the number decreases as they will start to turn on everything else if there are not enough of their own species to keep them occupied.
 
Timewise, since they are all juveniles you've probably got a year before problems occur so you should start thinking about your tank upgrade before then.
 
Sorry to appear a little negative but it's the way it is.
 
One little thing: if you do a full fishless cycle again in the future you should fully stock your tank immediately (after a big water change) as you will have bred enough bacteria to handle the load. Stocking in dribs and drabs will nullify some of the efforts you made in fishless cycling as without the ammonia load, bacteria will start to die back.

 

[NewTankGuy]

No worries, on sounding negative at all. Being new to this I want all the advice I can get! And I appreciate the response as well! So knowing that to keep these guys I will need a larger tank in the not so distant future....how big of tank would I need?  
 
Also, keeping in mind I'm new to all of this, what do you mean by, "'m surprised your nitrate is zero as your nitrites must have turned into something so as not to be there."

 

[ShinySideUp]

No worries, on sounding negative at all. Being new to this I want all the advice I can get! And I appreciate the response as well! So knowing that to keep these guys I will need a larger tank in the not so distant future....how big of tank would I need?  
 
Also, keeping in mind I'm new to all of this, what do you mean by, "'m surprised your nitrate is zero as your nitrites must have turned into something so as not to be there."

 
In a cycled tank, ammonia is turned to nitrite and that in turn is converted by bacteria to nitrates, these nitrates need to be removed by plant growth and water changes. So if your filter is working correctly your ammonia and nitrites should be zero and there should be a level of nitrate which ought to be not more than 40 to 80 ppm (depending on which test kit you use as the results strips are a bit ambiguous around that level) and while a low level is best it is almost certainly not going to be zero.
 
Tank size: A reasonable tank size for most of your fish would be a four footer, 240 litre, this is also not intrusive in your living room (or wherever) but your pleco will grow too big for most tanks. You only need to go to a LFS to see their collection of large plecos that people have handed in because they are too big. I had a four footer for several years which was perfectly adequate for most of my fish, however I also had clown loaches and a four foot tank is cetainly no good. I ended up buying a 6 x 2 x 2 640 litre tank which trust me, intrudes in the living room big-time.

 

[orangegecko]

I have a feeling his 3 plants are taking in nitrates for it to be that low...  Newtankguy, are you using test strips or a liquid test kit?
 
 
 
 

 

No worries, on sounding negative at all. Being new to this I want all the advice I can get! And I appreciate the response as well! So knowing that to keep these guys I will need a larger tank in the not so distant future....how big of tank would I need?  
 
Also, keeping in mind I'm new to all of this, what do you mean by, "'m surprised your nitrate is zero as your nitrites must have turned into something so as not to be there."

 
In a cycled tank, ammonia is turned to nitrite and that in turn is converted by bacteria to nitrates, these nitrates need to be removed by plant growth and water changes. So if your filter is working correctly your ammonia and nitrites should be zero and there should be a level of nitrate which ought to be not more than 40 to 80 ppm (depending on which test kit you use as the results strips are a bit ambiguous around that level) and while a low level is best it is almost certainly not going to be zero.
 
Tank size: A reasonable tank size for most of your fish would be a four footer, 240 litre, this is also not intrusive in your living room (or wherever) but your pleco will grow too big for most tanks. You only need to go to a LFS to see their collection of large plecos that people have handed in because they are too big. I had a four footer for several years which was perfectly adequate for most of my fish, however I also had clown loaches and a four foot tank is cetainly no good. I ended up buying a 6 x 2 x 2 640 litre tank which trust me, intrudes in the living room big-time.
 

 

[NewTankGuy]

I am using the API Master Test Kit for Freshwater, which is a liquid test kit, with the glass vile's, and the drops you add....

Oh just to add, I have talked to the boss (AKA my lovely wife

 ) and We are looking now to get a 75-90 gallon tank for everyone so they are much happier, but I wont be able to do that until mid next month. 

 

[fm1978]

It might depend what type of pleco you have whether it will grow to be far too big for that tank. There are some that will get to 10cm and it will be alright in there. 
 
That sounds like quite a boisterous tank you have there and as those fish get older and bigger and stronger they'll get more and more aggressive. In a 29Gal tank that equates to not a lot of space for angels and barbs to have their own territories. More plants will help with this, breaking line of sight etc, but really a bigger tank is best.
 
Angels will get big and very tall so the actual dimensions of your tank would good to know. I've seen some quotes of 18" in height being a minimum for angels.
 
The Nitrates at 0 is a little odd. My money would on the test kit as one of the nitrate reagents MUST be shaken to within an inch of it's life. If it's not, it won't give you the correct result. You don't have enough plants in there to reduce Nitrate to 0, I wouldn't have thought.
 
In summary, this tank size isn't suitable in the long run. Try to re-test your Nitrates after going mental with the reagent (bang it off tables, throw it against the wall, put it in a centrifuge - if you have one - do whatever it takes to mix the particulates back into the liquid. You really SHOULD get some kind of Nitrate reading or it's simply not working.

 

[NewTankGuy]

How do I know what type of Pelco I have?  Also I used to get a reading on my nitrates, but now its dropped out, but I will defiantly try your trick of shaking till my arm hurts lol. Also I will defiantly be getting a larger tank, 75-90 gallon measuring 48x18x20 inches, or 48x18x24, respectively.   My 29 gallon is 30x12.5x18.75 inches.  Here is a pic of my Pelco, hes/she/it is spotted and about 2.5-3 inches now, and iv only had him for about 4 weeks-ish, but has defiantly grown since I have gotten him.  

 

[fm1978]

Yeah that looks a lot like a common plec, hopefully an expert can confirm, but those are the ones that get very big...

Here's a link http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/pleco/common.php

 

[NewTankGuy]

Thanks for the article! I'm glad I am stepping up my aquarium size here soon! So I have a question about drift wood...what makes it actually "drift wood"  like is there something special to it, or can i grab a dead tree branch from the yard and toss it in there?  Or maybe boil it then toss it in?

 

[fm1978]

Driftwood/Bogwood are really just a generic term not really to be taken literally.
 
There are some types of wood that are particularly suited for aquarium use, for example, Mopani and/or Red Moor. These types are readily available online and in LFSs and sometimes are already fine to pop straight into a tank (following a clean) without soaking for days or weeks. I got some Mopani from a UK LFS, which shall not be named, which I cleaned with boiling water but it was already dense and heavy enough to sink from the get go.
 
Things to remember if you chose to 'source' your own types of woods. It MUST be dry and very dead, as in not been attached to a tree for a long time. Hard woods are recommended, wood from fruit trees and perhaps oak and beech. Avoid thing like pine or wood with a distinct scent - it generally means they still contain oils/saps that will leech back into the aquarium over time.
 
As for cleaning, boiling's not entirely recommended but I suppose a very quick steep in boiling water is fine. My preference is rinsing with boiling water and a bit of a scrub with a hard brush. If the wood doesn't sink right away you'll need to steep it for quite a while which may also help to reduce the tannins. You can tell if it's releasing tannins by the tea colouring in the water. 

 

[attibones]

48x18x20 is a good size tank, but see if you can find one that's a little taller. Maybe shoot for 48x24x20. This will give your angels room to grow.

 

[Sharknado99]

OMG...did you say the pleco could grow to at least a foot long...Holy crap
Sorry, I'm shocked. I have one and I'm seriously worried now.
 
Am going to have to see what I can do because I think he will defintely outgrow my 180L

 

[NewTankGuy]

Honestly I was surprised too! No one told me, not even the LPS, but apparently they get HUGE like a 1-2 feet, and weighing a couple pounds!!

 

[Sharknado99]

Thats incredible..
How could they not tell us this lol. THats a huge fish..like pond water or lake fish..not aquarium tank fish.
Sigh