Tank Disaster - What To Do Now?

[alexpb22]

Hi everyone,
 
I'm looking for advice as to how best to approach my situation and the best way to move forward.
 
It's roughly a year since I first set up my tank, it had been going really well until I added some new fish about 6 weeks ago.  As soon as I introduced them I started having problems and to cut a long story short my stocking has gone from:
 
1 Dwarf Gourami
9 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish
6 Platys
3 Peacock Gudgeons
 
to
 
3 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish
3 Platies
 
One of my rainbows looks like he might have gill flukes and the other I suspected of this last night has already died today so I'm assuming the other one is going the same way.  The other two neons look fine and the platy's also look fine.
 
I can't figure out whats gone wrong with my tank but it's fair to say that I suspect my other fish are going to go the same way.
 
My question is what is the best way forward?  There is no point in me getting any more fish whilst I am continuing to lose them so what happens next if they all die.
 
Do I literally have to empty the tank and start all over again or are there any treatments I can do in order to cleanse the tank before restarting?  I feel like after all this and the money spent I'm back to square one and it's so frustrating plus I'm concerned that this could happen all over again since I haven't got to grips with what has actually been causing the problems.
 
Before anyone asks all my levels are absolutely fine and this has never been a problem but there are clearly things being either introduced into my tank which are killing off my fish or the environment itself is creating disease/stress which is finishing them off.
 
I'm really at a loss as to what to do so if anyone has any advice then I'd love to hear from you.
 
 

 

[Chad]

I think we need to know a little more first. 
 
How many fish did you introduce?
How many fish were in it at the time?
How large is the tank?
What is the filtration?
Is it a planted tank?
When you say levels are "fine" what are the actual numbers you are getting when you tested after adding the fish?

 

[alexpb22]

I think we need to know a little more first. 
 
How many fish did you introduce?
How many fish were in it at the time?
How large is the tank?
What is the filtration?
Is it a planted tank?
When you say levels are "fine" what are the actual numbers you are getting when you tested after adding the fish?

I introduced 3 peacock gudgeons who were very small, at the time I had 7 dwarf neon rainbows, 3 platys and 1 dwarf gourami. One of the gudgeons died that night and the neons over the next couple of days. The dwarf gourami died last week, about five weeks later.

The tank is Fluval Roma 125, 125l/33US gallons and has a U3 Fluval filter.

The tank only has artificial plants.

My levels whenever I have tested have been 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite and about 30/40ppm Nitrate but that's basically the same as my tap water even after adding fish.

 

[Chad]

When was the last time you ran the tests?

 

[mrstwalker]

I will let someone else answer your question as to what to do, but some advice I could give is set up like a 10-20 gallon quarantine tank (I usually do bare bottom, no lighting, filter, some soft fake plants floating or anchored depending on fish) to house any new fish in for about 2 weeks and in some cases even up to a month before adding them to your main tank. The more expensive the fish get in my main tank, the longer I keep the new fish in quarantine. That will help tremendously in keeping your main tank healthy especially when buying fish from a pet store  
 
Another thought is, Platy's can be VERY VERY disease prone if you buy them from a pet store. A lot of times they are so inbred that their immune systems are very weak and carry a lot of disease when you purchase them. This can go for any store bought fish, but I find that the platy's have it worse since they breed like rabbits. Not bashing buying fish from a pet store, but I've had this same problem before I started doing quarantines. 

 

[alexpb22]

When was the last time you ran the tests?

Last night and just now again and same results

 

[alexpb22]

I will let someone else answer your question as to what to do, but some advice I could give is set up like a 10-20 gallon quarantine tank (I usually do bare bottom, no lighting, filter, some soft fake plants floating or anchored depending on fish) to house any new fish in for about 2 weeks and in some cases even up to a month before adding them to your main tank. The more expensive the fish get in my main tank, the longer I keep the new fish in quarantine. That will help tremendously in keeping your main tank healthy especially when buying fish from a pet store

 
Another thought is, Platy's can be VERY VERY disease prone if you buy them from a pet store. A lot of times they are so inbred that their immune systems are very weak and carry a lot of disease when you purchase them. This can go for any store bought fish, but I find that the platy's have it worse since they breed like rabbits. Not bashing buying fish from a pet store, but I've had this same problem before I started doing quarantines. 

 
I couldn't agree more, I had actually decided that going forward I would be quarantining all new fish before they go into the main tank.
 
I agree also with what you have said about Platy's and what is becoming frustrating is that I am reading this with regards to a lot of Tropical Fish that i want to have.  The Platys along with other Livebearers are supposed to often be prone to worms and diseases due to the breeding.  Dwarf Neon Rainbows I read now aren't particularly hardy also to do with the mass breeding and Dwarf Gourami's often have this Iridovirus which again means they may not be worth risking.  More and more now it seems that the fish sold at fish shops are becoming very susceptible to issues which is making it very difficult for me to work out what fish I should be stocking my tank with especially as a lot of the popular ones that I see recommended on here i'm not that keen on.

I will let someone else answer your question as to what to do, but some advice I could give is set up like a 10-20 gallon quarantine tank (I usually do bare bottom, no lighting, filter, some soft fake plants floating or anchored depending on fish) to house any new fish in for about 2 weeks and in some cases even up to a month before adding them to your main tank. The more expensive the fish get in my main tank, the longer I keep the new fish in quarantine. That will help tremendously in keeping your main tank healthy especially when buying fish from a pet store

 
Another thought is, Platy's can be VERY VERY disease prone if you buy them from a pet store. A lot of times they are so inbred that their immune systems are very weak and carry a lot of disease when you purchase them. This can go for any store bought fish, but I find that the platy's have it worse since they breed like rabbits. Not bashing buying fish from a pet store, but I've had this same problem before I started doing quarantines. 

 
I couldn't agree more, I had actually decided that going forward I would be quarantining all new fish before they go into the main tank.
 
I agree also with what you have said about Platy's and what is becoming frustrating is that I am reading this with regards to a lot of Tropical Fish that i want to have.  The Platys along with other Livebearers are supposed to often be prone to worms and diseases due to the breeding.  Dwarf Neon Rainbows I read now aren't particularly hardy also to do with the mass breeding and Dwarf Gourami's often have this Iridovirus which again means they may not be worth risking.  More and more now it seems that the fish sold at fish shops are becoming very susceptible to issues which is making it very difficult for me to work out what fish I should be stocking my tank with especially as a lot of the popular ones that I see recommended on here i'm not that keen on.

 

[CSnyder00]

A quarantine tank is the only way to prevent disease being introduced for sure. You can slowly up the temperature in the main tank to help speed up the life cycle of any parasites. You could also add salt, but that would need to be done with extreme caution. What is the temperature at right now?

 

[alexpb22]

A quarantine tank is the only way to prevent disease being introduced for sure. You can slowly up the temperature in the main tank to help speed up the life cycle of any parasites. You could also add salt, but that would need to be done with extreme caution. What is the temperature at right now?

Temp is around 26/27.

I guess what I'm asking is, assuming I lose all my fish what is the next step for me? To empty the tank, clean it all out and start the cycling process again or is there a way of treating the tank before adding more fish at a later date? Presumably if there aren't any fish in the tank then my bacteria will start dying off.

 

[Byron]

I guess what I'm asking is, assuming I lose all my fish what is the next step for me? To empty the tank, clean it all out and start the cycling process again or is there a way of treating the tank before adding more fish at a later date? Presumably if there aren't any fish in the tank then my bacteria will start dying off.
 

 
In order to effectively "treat" the tank, you need to know what the issue is that is killing the fish.  If some survive, it may be that the "disease" issue is gone, or it may be that the survivors were able to deal with it, but any new fish might succumb.  All depends upon what it is.
 
If all the fish die, I would be tempted to get rid of everything and starting fresh, including new filter media and substrate.
 
Just a comment on the bacteria issue...the bacteria do not die off as quickly as we used to believe.  First, there will likely be ammonia present even without fish, from the breakdown of organics.  But aside from this, when ammonia decreases, the nitrifying bacteria have the ability to go into a sort of "dormant" period--think of it as hibernation.  As to how long they can remain like this, it varies, and if TTA sees this he will have more data.  But the point I'm making is simply that the bacteria will not, solely for reduced ammonia present, die off.  Now, other issues may affect them too, thinking here of whatever is killing your fish, and any treatments you may use.
 
A parting suggestion on the initial issue...this seems to have come in with the new fish, and without any external symptoms was quite possibly an internal protozoan.  I have seen this twice.  There are many types of protozoan, and I am not going to speculate on treatments as I could well make things worse without a correct diagnosis.  But I will say that adding the correct antibiotic to their food is often a very effective way of dealing with this; I happen to have used metronidazole, which fortunately was the right one for the protozoan I had both times.
 
Byron.

 

[alexpb22]

[/quote]A parting suggestion on the initial issue...this seems to have come in with the new fish, and without any external symptoms was quite possibly an internal protozoan.  I have seen this twice.  There are many types of protozoan, and I am not going to speculate on treatments as I could well make things worse without a correct diagnosis.  But I will say that adding the correct antibiotic to their food is often a very effective way of dealing with this; I happen to have used metronidazole, which fortunately was the right one for the protozoan I had both times.
 
Byron.[/quote]

All good stuff, I don't think you can get any antibiotics in the UK without a vet prescription which is unfortunate. If anyone knows of anything suitable in the UK then please let me know.

 

[CSnyder00]

Not sure how to get you antibiotics, but you might be able to get them shipped from an online supplier. I'm not sure liquid tank antibiotics fall under the same category as pill form antibiotics. Also, I would agree that a complete tear down if you lose all of the fish would be wise. Don't risk introducing more fish into the kill zone. Clean and rinse and start all over. If you have a LFS or a friend with a healthy tank, you could also seed the new filter/tank with established filter media or put a bag of their substrate in your tank in some cheese cloth so that the bacteria can grow and then remove it once your cycle is complete. It helps speed the process by introducing established bacteria.

 

[Byron]

If you have a LFS or a friend with a healthy tank, you could also seed the new filter/tank with established filter media or put a bag of their substrate in your tank in some cheese cloth so that the bacteria can grow and then remove it once your cycle is complete. It helps speed the process by introducing established bacteria.
 

 
This is actually an extremely dangerous practice.  Using your own tanks to seed new tanks is often practical (though there is still a risk but much less--I have unknowingly transferred disease from one tank I didn't know had it to another) but never use filter media or substrate from stores.  You've no idea what pathogens might be lurking in this material, given the rapid turnover of fish in stores and that many of them do carry diseases.  We take precautions with newly acquired fish by quarantining and being careful not to get the bag water into the tank; this is exactly the same issue.
 
The safest "seeding" method is undoubtedly using a biological supplement such as Dr. Tim's One and Only, or Tetra's SafeStart.
 
Byron.