Tank Chemistry Confusing Me

[ox5477]

Hey there... well everything is going great with the reef except Im having real trouble keeping most of my chemistry stats in check. Attached is an excel document with the stats I've been keeping since the upgrade to the 55G.

I dont use any reactors, just wc's (try for every two weeks) and buffers. I believe one issue could be my salt. I remember seeing a topic on which salt is best and I think it was Red Sea salt that was the best? I use reef crystals cause thats what the lfs had when I bought it close to 9 months ago.

Skimming can also effect things like alk right? Or am I just imagining that I saw a topic about this? I have a seaclone... crap skimmer... but it does pull a fair amount of skimmate out of my 55 everyweek so maybe this is retarding the effects of my buffering?

Finally, obv, as you put in more corals and inverts, the minerals will be used up faster, but no matter how much I buffer, it seem The stats never go up...

The last straw... ie, why Im posting today.... is I just did a wc this morning and checked my stats this afternoon and my alk has shot up over 2dkH... this just hasn't happened after one wc before and made me wonder what the hell is going on. FYI, the water was matured, mixed for 4 days before the wc.

Any advice beyond using reactors, as I just dont think they are needed on this size of a tank, I would appreciate. Thanks guys!

Ox

Nvm I guess.... wont let me upload excel files....a screen capture is attached:

 

[Colin_T]

Protein skimmers can remove some trace elements from the water but most skimmers don't remove much and regular water changes normally replace what is lost.
The skimmer is unlikely to be affecting the buffer in the water. If the skimmer is removing a lot of black gunk then there is obviously a lot of food going into the tank. When the fish food is broken down by the filters the nitric acid produced will drop the PH. If you don't have enough carbonates and bicarbonates in the water the PH will drop quickly.
The more corals and inverts in the tank, the faster the minerals do get used. However, hard corals will use more than soft corals, and shrimp and crabs use very little by comparison. The more light the corals get, the faster they grow and the more calcium they use.
You should increase the calcium to about 470ppm in the new water before it goes into the tank. Then each day or several times a week add some calcium solution via drip method (airline in a bottle and have a plastic tap/ adjuster to control the rate of flow).
The magnesium looks pretty stabile and although corals use some they prefer calcium. If there is no calcium they use other elements from the water.
The sudden rise in alkalinity could have been a faulty test or you just put too much buffer in the new water. Perhaps you fresh water supply has changed and now has more stuff in it compared to a month ago.
Is the alkalinity from a PH test kit or an alkalinity test kit? They are slightly different. PH can be buffered up using sodium bicarbonate. This will also raise the alkalinity a bit. Limestone rocks, coral rubble or shell in the tank should help to buffer the PH and keep it around 8.4.

 

[littleme1969]

In small tanks there should be no reason to add anything other than doing water changes. If you pay the extra and get quality salt like Red sea coral pro you wont have to mess with the water chemistry. I have a 100g which has been up for 6 months now with stable results across the board. I had a 25g for six months before that and ran it the same way. These where maintained by water changes mainly 10 - 20% a week and once the tank reached 3 months I started to add a basic supplement mix also made by red sea. Its fool proof and keeps a very stable tank with no issues over having to manage certain elements in the water. I often find on here people seem to over manage their small systems and often find they cause more harm than good. Keep it simple with good regular maintainance/wc and the tank runs itself The only thing I have ever had to keep an eye on it phosphates, but nearly all systems have this issue. Simple adding of a phosphate remover keeps that well in check with little hassel.

 

[rictheredneck]

what test kits u using? and how old?

 

[SkiFletch]

Yup, what test kits? And how about pH?

Also how are you adding the chemicals?

If you're using salifert kits, are you properly leveling your spoonfuls of solids for calc and mag tests? improper leveling wil result to big differences in calc and mag. The alk measurements are more fool-proof and probably more accurate.

And another question, are you using A/C to cool the room with the relatively warm weather we've been having?

 

[ox5477]

Ok then...

Salifert Kits, all except alk new within last 3 months. alk about 7-8 months I believe. Yes, have been careful about precise amounts, ie leveling spoons.

I do have central AC and try to keep it on when it gets to 80 or above outside for the tanks sake (and ok... my own too...) The hottest the tank has gotten over the last week was about 82... and that day I turned the dining room fan on over the tank while the house cooled down from the AC.

Yes... When I posted I knew somebody would ask about the pH... I have a very old APi test kit... which prob wont be accurate so I just haven't bought a new one to replace it...

I figured the salt was an issue as well as I remember reading that the reef crystals are lacking in good amounts of the minerals.

I buffer them into the tank, but I should prob dilute them into some fresh ro and drip them like kalkwasser right?

Ox

 

[SkiFletch]

No need to drip like kalkwasser, just add to an area of high flow. I struggle with the same problems you are in the summer. The constant changing of the pH via changing ambient CO2 (high with AC on, low with AC off and windows open) plays with the calc/alk balance a lot. I find that keeping magnesium pretty high counters this swinging to some extent. In the spring, fall, and winter when I either have the windows open all the time (or closed in the winter) makes it much easier to keep a balance going.

 

[ox5477]

Well Im having trouble keeping the mag up as well as you can see... I buffer as much as the liquid buffer said you should, but it never gets very high. Don't you wanna keep it atleast above 1300? Maybe around 1400? Mine never gets above 1200 it seems...

Ya... Im sure getting to 40-45F at night anf then 85F during the day is not helping things... damn western NY..

Ox

 

[SkiFletch]

What are you dosing magnesium with? A pre-made liquid, or dissolved mag chloride/mag phosphate mix?

 

[ox5477]

It was Kent marine liquid doser...Coral Vite I believe... not the best for pure mag dosing but I couldn't find any originally... then walked into caribbean forrest and they have a whole managery of inidividual dosing agents.

Interesting too... if you go onto the Kent Marine site... two of the three fish that they have on every page are cichlids.... weird... couldn't find two other marine species pictures they could use? Ha

Kent Marine

Ox

 

[SkiFletch]

Ah, to bulkreefsupply.com I will send you . Longterm it's WAY cheaper than the Kent stuff

 

[ox5477]

Thanks ski... seen this link thrown around reefcentral but never actually clicked to check it out. I'll take a look and how the prices look.

Ox

So with these flakes, do I just let them dissolve in new ro to 1300-1500ppm and then top off with it or would it be better to buffer wc water to add to the aquarium? Or could I just dissolve as much in a certain water volume and drip that in to help buffer then already present water??

 

[ox5477]

Ahh... the young one actually read.... it looks really simple the way they put it. Do you recommend getting the 2 in 1 system and maybe purchasing an extra clac and alk gallon bucket to begin with? (as these will be used more readily then mag). And just wondering as they dont really explain, whats the deal with the two types of mag in the kit?

 

[SkiFletch]

Sort of, but not really. You mix up the ingredients per Randy Holmes-Farley's DIY method with RO, then use the reef chemistry calculator to figure out how much of that DIY solution to use. Example: Mix up 1gallon of the DIY solution. My own system is ~80 gallons water volume. So I input that in the calculator, say my mag is 1200 and I want it 1350. Enter those values into the calculator and submit magnesium. It tells me I need ~1L of the DIY suppliment to achieve that concentration of magnesium

FYI, in my own above example, about $5 in Kent Tech M additive, but with the bulkreefsupply stuff that same treatment would only cost me about $1.00

The two types of mag are to not overdose chloride ions when using other suppliments (calc chloride and sodium bicarb) in Randy's DIY method.

 

[ox5477]

Do you have a link to this calculator? Took a quick scan through some of his DIY articles and didn't see a GUI calculator. Is it a GUI style reference or are you just looking at a Graph?

Ox