Tank Advice And Moving To New Tank

[AJNOZ]

Hello all,
 
Since this is my first post I'd like to first introduce myself.  I'm AJ, I've been a fish "hobbyist" for about 3 years now and I focus on maintaining beta tanks and figuring out ways to keep them happy with other fish as well.  
 
Here is my current setup:
 
Tank #1:

Spoiler

5 Gallon w/ lighted hood (LED, I know) with a 10g filter (with breakwater) and 1.5 inches of gravel
Tank is fully cycled
Fish:

• Blue/black half-moon double tail female betta
• 3 Neon Tetras
• 3 glass catfish
• 1 oto catfish
• 2 Bamboo shrimp
• 2 ghost shrimp
• Mystery Snail (The real mystery is how it's still alive, haven't had too much luck with snails ... knock on wood)

Plants:

• 3 Aponogoten, two are full and doing quite well one is the "runt" but I managed to get all three in the pack to grow
• 1 Japanese moss algae ball (about 4-5 inches, neons and the shrimp seem to love this thing they toss it around the tank all day)

Levels:

• Ammonia/Nitrates - kept as low as possible, usually 0
• Nitrites - kept as low as possible esp. with so many in there
• pH and Hardness is a bit high but my fish seem to be doing well so I don't want to risk messing with acids and softeners right now
• I use test strips bi-weekly, and have the water tested at my LFS monthly
• Water changes every other week to help keep nitrate levels down, never go above 250 parts per million
  I add a touch of salt every third water change

 
Tank #2:

Spoiler

3 gallon w/o hood (this is my quarantine/previous tank) with a 5-10g filter w/ breakwater and 1 inch of gravel
Tank has just finished cycling and is settling down.
 
Fish:

• 1 Half Moon Double Tail Betta Male
• 4 neon Tetras
• 2 ghost shrimp

Plants:

• 1 Japanese moss algae ball about 2-3 inches

Levels:

• Ammonia/Nitrates - kept as low as possible, usually 0, to day read a bit high but is mostly water from the LFS so I'll do a 25% water change tomorrow and see how that goes
• Nitrites - Low end of safe zone ~250 parts per million
• pH and Hardness same as tank #1
• Same test and water regimen
• Haven't added salt to this one yet

 
First I'd like to say that I know that the general rule of thumb is 1in. of fish per gallon of water and I know that I'm clearly breaking that rule.  However I've been running this tank now for almost a year with no problems.  I do have a hood but it is well ventilated and the tank is planted, although not sure if it is "heavily" planted.  I will admit that I favor the surface to air ratio for tanks as a personal preference.  I do bi-weekly water changes which might seem to be stretching it but I keep an eye on my levels and use a vacuum when I change the water, usually around 25-30% change.
 
My second tank is a quarantine tank and again I know that it is over the traditional rule but since these are new fish I don't want to risk anything.  Additionally, I expect one of the neons to die within the next week, but that is more experience with my LFS.  I have a 5-10g filter on both tanks with a breakwater to slow the outflow for the betta's.  I will say that I have had a few losses but they were my larger (and older) neons who were a bit dumb and liked to sit on the filter intake.....
 
My question is that I want to move to a larger tank.  I am looking at a 10g w/ a 15g filter w/ breakwater (might decide on a 15g w/ 20g filter though).  However I am unsure of the best way to move my fish and snail.  Should I let the tank cycle with it's own new water or is it ok to move the fish to temporary containers and use my current water/gravel (from both tanks once quarantine is over and I've deemed them safe) to speed up the process.  This tank will be replacing my previous two and increasing my total water to 10g and the surface to air ratio to ~20 (currently at ~17 in the current two tanks combined, tank 1 ~12, tank 2 ~ 8).
 
While I have had fish for quite some time I usually waited until they died of old age before restarting with a larger tank.  However this time I have fish of varying ages and I know that my old way isn't doable right now.  Since the tanks are cycled and I would be able to get filter squeezing and will be using the well situated gravel my hope is that this will be possible.  However I figured I'd ask first before doing anything.  I won't be getting the new tank for a week and I can wait 2 more weeks to cycle the tank but I'd really like to be able to get my old tanks put away.
 
Also, as a note I will NOT be putting the two betta's in together, I know better than that.  I am moving my female into a smaller tank that is more manageable as I have raised her from a baby (PETCO beta baby, I've learned my lesson on those) and don't have the heart to give her back or to a breeder.  The male will be moving into the new 10/15g as he is "prettier" and my parents think it's more aesthetically pleasing.  The female will probably live next to the tank though I might breed her if I can find someone who can work with the babies.  ((This makes me want a 40g tank so I could house them all together and give them plenty of space for both beta's to be together but alas it's out of my monetary limits.))
 
I will say that I enjoy feedback of any kind as it's the only way to learn and keep my fish healthy.  As I stated I know that there is the 1in/gallon rule that I am breaking but I have done my calculations and ran the O2/CO2 levels (I'm a Bio-science major and am getting my masters in medical sciences so I know how to get those readings).  That being said if all you're going to do is bash me for my decision I thank you kindly for not posting.  If you have constructive criticism though, by all means post as most of you will have been doing this for much longer than me and I know that I can only stand to benefit from you're experiences.
 
Thank you for your advice, 
 
Respectfully,
AJ

 

[Wansui]

Well, filter squeezings and some gravel won't cycle the tank on its own. It will speed up the cycle but the nitrifying bacteria still need an ammonia source for the colony to deal with a full bio load. Have you read this? - "http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/">THIS</a>
 
 Don't worry to much about the "one inch per gallon rule"   there is more information involved in the stocking process than the simple idea of size. Yes, your current tanks are too small for the fish you have. But from the sounds of they're taken good care of. Plus you're upgrading in size soon so I see no reason to "bash" you for your decisions.
 
Though I did notice something "to day read a bit high but is mostly water from the LFS" Its very to important never mix water from your LFS with your water. Also Remember, the bigger the tank, the less impact a mistake will have on the fish. So if you are able to get larger than a 10 gallon, please do so. "Nitrites - Low end of safe zone ~250 parts per million" did I read this right? nitrites should be kept at 0. Did you mean nitrates? even so, 250ppm is way too high. 

 

[AJNOZ]

I may be confusing Nitrites, Nitrates, and Ammonia levels from my test strips.  It's currently 6am and I'm a horrible insomniac.  As for the one inch per gallon vs surface to air ratio yes, I read a few articles about it and tested it slowly (over several months) to monitor for any issues.  So far the only losses have been to age, or stupidity as I had two neon tetras that liked to swim INTO the filter intake, not around, not next to, but into it.  Still not sure what the issue is there.
 
I do understand the risks of overstocking as I have done based on the traditional one inch per gallon rule, but I check the ammonia levels and watch them for any "negative behavior" like hitting up against the side of the tank or rubbing against objects.  To most newbies I would say don't do it as it's more work but I trust my math and so far it hasn't killed them.  I also attribute it to the plants, filter feeders, and the oversized filter in the tank.  The filter alone has probably allowed for a larger colony of bacteria to grow which might be the reason. 
 
As for the advice about moving, thank you I wasn't sure what to do but what you said confirmed my decision.  I'll probably move gravel and one of my filters (which is half-way through this month, change every month) or bio-sponges to the new tank and let it cycle for two weeks.  Might throw in some neon tetras as I can get them fairly cheap from my LFS and their mostly there as filler and color anyways.  I do plan on transplanting my plants and adding a few more to provide shelter but I just wanted a second opinion on doing another fish-in cycle (did that for the 5 gallon and about tore my hair out from ammonia levels scaring me all the time) or wait it out and move everyone to an established home.
 
As for getting larger than a 10g I am limited by space where the fish are kept.  They are on a bar off of my kitchen b/c the outlets are GFI there (i do have drip loops JIC) and my parents like seeing them as the LED's are blue/white and the tank is very pretty when fully illuminated.  I might be able to fit a 15g but that would be pushing it as it would be hanging off of the edge but I will see what I can do.
 
Thank you for the reply,
 
AJ

 

[fluttermoth]

If you transfer all the media (that's all the stuff inside your filter; sponges, ceramic rings etc) into the new tank's filter, you'll be cycled, for the amount of fish you have now.
 
I'm afraid your nitrate is far, far too high, and will be affecting your fish's long term health. The ideal maximum for nitrate is 60ppm, or 20ppm more than the level in your tap water; whichever is the lower. You need to do a succession of small water changes to get that down. If you do large water changes and reduce it too quickly, it could shock your fish and even kill them, as they will have become accustomed to that poor water now.
 
We don't pay any attention to the 'inch of fish per gallon' here, apart from as a very, very rough estimate, as there are far more subtleties involved in stocking, but the high levels of nitrate should be a good indicator to you that your tanks are massively overstocked.
 
Also; I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but glass cats have no business being in a five gallon tank. The minimum tank size for them (and, personally I wouldn't put them in a tank that small) would be 90 x 30 x 30 cms; that's around 80l/18 gallons. 
 
They, and the neons and oto should also be kept in shoals of at least six individuals, of the same species, as they are social and need to be able to create a hierarchy to prevent bullying and nipping and to be able to express their natural behaviour.
 
Oh, I forgot to say, please stop adding salt to your tanks. While salt can be a very valuable medication, these are freshwater fish and they do not need any salt added as a matter of course. In fact most of your fish come from very soft, acidic waters, so salt will be positively detrimental to their well being.

 

[Ninjouzata]

I agree with the above!
 
I'd get a liquid test kit when you can as the strips are notoriously inaccurate. I'd also stop changing your filter media..when you do this you're having to re-cycle the tank all over again.
Rinse in old tank water occasionally and if you must replace it only do a small amount at a time. Don't worry about not having the 40g as you should never house female and male bettas together long term anyways.

 

[Wildbetta]

Constructive criticism:  The fish in your tanks are not suited to this small of an environment.  The 1 in per gallon rule is old and archaic -- not taking into consideration the activity level of the fish, the need for a group (for some species), and how heavy the waste production of a particular fish.  The only fish you have that are even remotely ok with the size of the tanks that you have now are the bettas, the mystery snail (5 gallon only), and the ghost shrimp.  Unless you are going to be able to get a tank of around 30 gallons, I would look at rehoming the bamboo shrimp and the glass cats as I would never recommend either of those species be kept in anything smaller than that.  Ideally you would need around a 20 gallon to house the correct amount of otos that you would need to keep them in the correct fashion.  You could get away with adding 2 more otos to the 10 gallon and adding all your current neons which would work.  With the bettas, one of them might be ok in the 10 gallon with the neons but it is always iffy depending on the betta's temperament.  Since you already have them kept with neons, either one should work out nicely in the 10 gallon although things can change once the tanks are changed around and the territories are different.
 
As for your tank upkeep, it does need to be changed a bit for the best health of your fish.  I suggest water changes of at least 25% every week instead of every other week. I also recommend not changing out your filter media unless it is literally falling apart because when you change it out, you are basically getting rid of 90% of your beneficial bacteria that handle your tank's cycle.  When testing your tank, I suggest getting a liquid test kit since the strips can be highly inaccurate.  Adding salt on a regular basis to a FW tank is not a good practice and can lead to health issues for your fish in the long run so I suggest that you stop adding it.  Since you keep bettas, make sure that you are keeping a heater in the water and keep the temperature no lower than 78F although I prefer no lower than 80F.  When keeping a tank for your other betta, I would go with the 5 gallon one instead of the 3 gallon since it is larger in space and better for the fish.  I do not recommend adding anything besides the betta to that tank except maybe some of the ghost shrimp. 
 
Hopefully this helps.  I am sure that I am missing something but this should be a nice start.  

 

[AJNOZ]

I apologize for the readings.  I tested them again and my Nitrate is low around 20 ppm, and my nitrites are 0 in both tanks.  I got the numbers mixed up as it was 6am and I didn't even think to go check it.  My current readings for both tanks are:
 
Nitrates: <20ppm 
Nitrites: 0
pH: 7.8*
Hardness: Hard*
Chlorine: 0
Alkalinity: low
 
*for the pH and Hardness my tap water is hard and I know that I could treat it but since my fish have lived with it that way for so long now I'm afraid if I started changing it too much to get it closer to an acidic level I might harm them, esp. with the amount of pH down I'd have to add.
 
As for the salt I know that it helps the beta's, I started to use it sparingly (never more then a teaspoon every other water change) after a nasty round of fungus that my previous 3 beta's got (all from petsmart 3 out of 3 had the same fungus.  Don't buy from them anymore).  However since my tanks are stable I haven't added any for quite some time (3-4 months now).  I do test the water and if I see anything getting on the medium-high side of the safe zone I do a water change (25%).  Doesn't matter if I've already done one that week or not.  I use a vacuum to clean the gravel and get the water out currently.
 
I also didn't know about the glass catfish and bamboo shrimp needing such a large tank.  I might give them back to the LFS or my friend who has a 50g tank if that's the case.  However, I think that I am again using the wrong name for the shrimp as their about double the size of my largest ghost shrimp and come in at roughly and inch in size.  So I might be confusing them again.  ((Did the same thing with Oto cats and Pleco cats)).
 
However I do agree that a larger tank would be nice if I can swing it.  If not I might keep the 5g up and running and split up my stock between them.
 
Thanks for the advice.

 

[the_lock_man]

There is no shame in making errors, we've all made them. Please follow Fluttermoth's advice on doing a series of small water changes, kinda 10% per day would be my recommendation until the nitrate level is down to around 40ppm, thereafter I would suggest 50% every week.

 

[AJNOZ]

The levels are currently ~20ppm and I just got two plants out of quarantine and was able to add them to each of the tanks so that should help.  However I do have another question about the filters as the manufacturers recommended to change them once a month but I saw above that doing so would wipe out 90% of the good bacteria.  My larger tank's filter has a double slot where there is enough room for me to add a second filter in series with the first (front or back not sure).  Would this be a good way to get the new filter ready faster or is it ok to just leave the old filter until it starts to fall apart?

 

[the_lock_man]

There are various different types of filter media
 
The main three, to my mind, are filter wool or sponges, activated carbon and ceramic.
 
Ceramic filter media are primarily to encourage bacterial growth. The ceramic is made such that there is plenty of surface area for bacteria to cling to. This NEVER needs changing.
 
Filter wool or sponge is primarily to remove detritus from the water - coarse sponge removes large bits from the water, whilst finer wool also removes the smaller bits. It also provides a surface for bacteria to grow. It only needs changing when it is falling apart.
 
Carbon is primarily to remove chemicals from the water, mainly heavy metal pollutants, but it will also remove tannin which discolours water (Tannin will leach out from wood). After 3 or 4 weeks, the carbon is saturated, and will no longer perform its function, and therefore requires replacement. Since it, too, provides a surface for bacteria to grow, throwing the carbon away will also remove any bacteria that have grown there. I personally do not use a carbon filter. Decent dechlorinator products will also remove heavy metal pollutants (copper, and the like) from tap water, so carbon is redundant in that respect.
 
What you need to do is to identify what type of media the filter cartridges hold.

 

[AJNOZ]

Currently it is activated carbon.
 
I noticed that my filter has two slots in it that both fit the filter that it takes.  Could I put the old filter in the back and the new filter in the front for a week or so to help jumpstart bacterial growth in the new filter while also allowing for filtration?  Alternatively could I just swap out the front filter and leave the back filter in there as my bacteria colony until it starts to break apart?
 
On a note about filters, is an external filter or an internal filter (as most sponge filters are) better for tanks?  I have been looking into internal filters w/ bubblers/air/water pumps but I like the ease of use and relatively small (inside the tank wise) footprint of the external filters that you hang on the side of the tanks.
 
As an update to the tanks, both are sitting with Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrates where they should be.  Nitrites ~0ppm, Nitrates ~20ppm (I say around b/c I'm using test strips until next week wed. when I get paid and can purchase the new tank and other materials.)