T5 Vs T8

[lljdma06]

Hey, while we're talking T5s and T8s, your mod has a question. Is there a website that gives the general lumen output of T5s of various wattages? I have one that does this for various T8, T10, T12, and CF bulbs, but the T5s and T6s were conspicously absent. I've tried looking, but I suspect I'm phrasing the search incorrectly. No doubt that is the case, because I've not done the search before.

As for what's better, I'm still trying to determine that. If you tried me a year ago, I would have said T5s all the way. Now, I'm not so certain. I think it more depends on what you want to accomplish with a tank. I am considering switching the lighting for my 36g from 65W CF to the regular stock lighting, T8s.

llj

 

[three-fingers]

On the Arcadia I am surprised their 'new' luminaires have magnetic in!!!. Cheap electronic ballasts can be bought off ebay for £5 - £10 but you have to get the right one. they are listed as I showed in the pic in the post above. Buy the one that matches your tubes W & Qty. i.e. if you have 2 18W tubes don't by a 1X36W get a 2X18W.

Your Interpet CF was the original one. They then changed the ballast box to electronic which is the one I had. they then got banned due to the vent design on the box

Here is where I got the '95% after 800ohours statement' from. It does deal with Lumens which mean nothing but you can see that T8 and T5HO on electronic ballast are pretty comparable both on output lumens (4xT5HO v 6 x T8) Both beat MH for much less wattage!!! Long page this I pressed page down 15 times to get to the comparison chart The whole article is worth reading if you have the time.

This is the sort of electronic ballast you get off ebay. I have a 1 x 18W version of this one and it has been running the same tube for the last 2½ years Currently (Since March) for 16 hours a day over an emersed setup. lol

<a href="http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tridonic-2-x-18w-T8-...:0|293:1|294:25" target="_blank">http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tridonic-2-x-18w-T8-...:0|293:1|294:25</a>

AC

I'd guess it's an intentionally strategy to get you to buy more of their light tubes, with electronic ballasts they would last longer and they would sell less .
I feel a ballast switch coming up, though I cant find 25w ballasts on eBay! Closest I can see is 2x 24w and 28w. Elsewhere on the net I can find a 1x 25w ballast, but it's 110v.
Not looking good...maybe I'll get bored one day and mod the whole thing, maybe even with LED in addition to T8's or T5's.

On my bigger tank I'm definitely just buying ballasts and endcaps are wiring things up myself, so much cheaper. Missing link there?

Coincidentally, I actually just bought that exact same electronic ballast (Tridonic 2x18w) off eBay for £10 yesterday to fix my Juwel light bar which finally went .

 

[SuperColey1]

Hey, while we're talking T5s and T8s, your mod has a question. Is there a website that gives the general lumen output of T5s of various wattages?

I can't find one but I don't think theres much point in wasting too much time over it Hers a roughy you've probably seen:
<a href="http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/220684-post1.html" target="_blank">http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/220684-post1.html</a>

Apart from the fact that Lumens isn't the measurement we are after nor W (Good guide for the majority though) Lumens don't just depend on the tube length etc.

Colouration/K rating alters the Lumens. Differeing brands, differing ballasts etc.

Even if you use the same tube in the same setup. today may be a decent day and the temperature in the light area 26ºC and the tube gives off 2800lumens. Tomorrow a very hot day, temperature in the light area 35ºC and bang you're up to the optimum T5HO operating temperature and you get 3200 Lumens (number are examples but not far off!!!!)

Thats another plus for T8. Has an optimum operating temperature of 26ºC So it will give max in much cooler conditions.

My guess at the best fluoro setup would be to get the most tubes you can to achieve the W (PAR if you are rich enough ) you want and then spread them to get as much light directly above as much of the substrate as possible.

Therefore 4 x T8 would be better than 2 x T5HO. 3 x T5 standard (NO) would be about the same as the T8 due to slightly less wattages per tube

In general you could go by the figures I put in the earlier post above and/or the link in this post. That gives you the length, watts andLumens. then you can work out a general W per inch versus Lumens per inch calculation.

I feel a ballast switch coming up, though I cant find 25w ballasts on eBay! Closest I can see is 2x 24w and 28w. Elsewhere on the net I can find a 1x 25w ballast, but it's 110v.

Doing a quick searh for 24W and 28W ballasts I come up with T5 only ones!!! The 28/54 one is 28W T5/54W T5HO. It does say on the tech specs 'for T5 and T8 tubes' though The 24W ones are for TL5 which means T5.

 

[lljdma06]

Thanks for the link. I know Lumens and Wattage aren't accurate, but I'm not spending the money on a PAR meter, so I appreciate that you indulged my inaccuracy. The link helped a lot.

llj

 

[SuperColey1]

Thanks for the link. I know Lumens and Wattage aren't accurate, but I'm not spending the money on a PAR meter, so I appreciate that you indulged my inaccuracy. The link helped a lot.

llj

It was a tongue in cheek comment really I don't see the need some people do of measuring the PAR. I think thats a little extreme. I think with the experience many of us have from trial and error we can virtually work out what we need for everything to do well (within reason)

I just bang on about spread these days. I think the coverage/spread is much more important than the amount of light above. Maybe a case of a setup that is well spread needing a fair amount less total above the tank which can only be a good thing for both the plants and the wallet

Thats one of the reasons that I don't like these luminaires that pack 2,3,4 tubes tightly together and forces you to have all the light over the same space. Same principle as CF really. Loads of light, loads of intensity but some areas too much and some areas not enough

I really should go out more instead of going on about lights

Ac

 

[SuperColey1]

Thanks for the link. I know Lumens and Wattage aren't accurate, but I'm not spending the money on a PAR meter, so I appreciate that you indulged my inaccuracy. The link helped a lot.

llj

It was a tongue in cheek comment really I don't see the need some people do of measuring the PAR. I think thats a little extreme. I think with the experience many of us have from trial and error we can virtually work out what we need for everything to do well (within reason)

I just bang on about spread these days. I think the coverage/spread is much more important than the amount of light above. Maybe a case of a setup that is well spread needing a fair amount less total above the tank which can only be a good thing for both the plants and the wallet

I know my setup is LED but you can see what I mean here. The Luminaire is the exact size of the tank's footprint and the light spaced equally over the whole tank. Only 1.12WPG. Probably equivalent (guesstimate) of about 2WPG fluorescent light and from some PAR readings someone else took of a similar setup about equal to 4WPG of MH!!!! at the substrate.

Thats one of the reasons that I don't like these luminaires that pack 2,3,4 tubes tightly together and forces you to have all the light over the same space. Same principle as CF really. Loads of light, loads of intensity but some areas too much and some areas not enough

I really should go out more instead of going on about lights

Ac

 

[Bobtastic]

Sheesh... and heres me thinking it was as simple as the types of blubs your had in the hood....

By the looks of sounds of it I'm not gonna get a comprehensive lighting setup out of the box. Most of the tanks I've seen start off with only 2 blubs so working on the spread is best theory neither T8 or T5 would cut the mustard. But persumably 2xT5HO would be better than 2xT8 for a planted tank straight out of the box?

 

[Dave Spencer]

Sheesh... and heres me thinking it was as simple as the types of blubs your had in the hood....

Although this thread may have got a little technical, it actually is that simple. 2 x T8 the width of your tank will be enough. You may need to concentrate on CO2 and ferts more, but that depends on your goal.

Dave.

 

[SuperColey1]

Although this thread may have got a little technical, it actually is that simple. 2 x T8 the width of your tank will be enough. You may need to concentrate on CO2 and ferts more, but that depends on your goal.

Indeed I got a little technical here. what I was implying was that there is huge empthasis on light in this hobby with many saying this light is brighter. That may not necessarily be better light because your 2 x T8 full lengths will do the job (with an electronic correct (not underpowered ballast) and decent quality tubes and reflectors.

See how it goes rather than spend loads.

AC

 

[lljdma06]

See how it goes rather than spend loads.

AC

I agree with this statement.

 

[lljdma06]

See how it goes rather than spend loads.

AC

I agree with this statement.

Okay, just so I am clear on this. Remember, I'm not a techie, so please hold my hand. Is this a magnetic/electric ballast?



It doesn't look the same as the fixture I have.

llj

 

[Renate]

Here is something I read :
Life span of flourescent lights
Standard-- 6-18 months
T5---------- 6-8 months (At this approx time color dissipates)
T5 Ho------ 16-24 months (Hot and need fans)
CFL--------- 12-28 months (Hot and low dissipation)

If this is wrong please correct.

This comparison confuses me for T5HO has the highest lumens but least lumens/watt. What does this mean?

T8-----------------------------T5------------------------T5HO
av. lumens: 1845--------av. lumens : 1758---- av. lumens : 2803
lumens/watt: 73.8 % ---lumens/watt : 83.7---lumens/watt : 71.9

 

[Renate]

Okay, just so I am clear on this. Remember, I'm not a techie, so please hold my hand. Is this a magnetic/electric ballast?
View attachment 56965

At least you are not being impulsive and jumping in.
I went to a lot of effort to make a diy light. It started out cheap and ended up costing as much as much as a dual T5HO light system cost here This is cheap because it is made by Current USA. Their fans are loud but that is an easy fix.

BTW lljdma06 did you get your light yet?

 

[Renate]

I prefer the T5 to T8 for my 29 gallon tank, 30in, because the the T5s come in 30 inches. The T8s are 24 inches.

Also I found with T5HO I would need to inject Co2 thus the tank would no longer be a low tank, which how I want to keep it.

 

[SuperColey1]

I just came across this thread again and way too late but I may as well answer it. lol

Okay, just so I am clear on this. Remember, I'm not a techie, so please hold my hand. Is this a magnetic/electric ballast?
View attachment 56965

Magnetic/electric and not electronic. See the circular starters in the centre of the unit.

Here is something I read :
Life span of flourescent lights
Standard-- 6-18 months
T5---------- 6-8 months (At this approx time color dissipates)
T5 Ho------ 16-24 months (Hot and need fans)
CFL--------- 12-28 months (Hot and low dissipation)

If this is wrong please correct.

This comparison confuses me for T5HO has the highest lumens but least lumens/watt. What does this mean?

T8-----------------------------T5------------------------T5HO
av. lumens: 1845--------av. lumens : 1758---- av. lumens : 2803
lumens/watt: 73.8 % ---lumens/watt : 83.7---lumens/watt : 71.9

The problem is whoever tested that detailing 'tube life' when what they have tested is 'tube life in this setup'

T5 and T8 tubes WILL most definately last longer than T5HO. That is fact. however in those setups the standard tubes are being run on magnetic ballasts. That ballast is making the standard tubes run out quicker. The T5HO will most definately be on an electronic ballast and therefore it is the difference in ballasts that is giving them their results.

If all were run on electronic ballasts you would only need to change your standard tubes every 3 years before there was any relevant dropoff in output. The T5HO by its nature of burning hotter and brighter would drop off sooner. Probs circa 2 years.

Then they are giving lumens/watts/inch tests without quoting like for like. The results are correct but they are 2 different tests and need to be done like for like.

They say that the T5HO tube gives out more lumens per inch. Of course it does it is higher power than the standard ones even though it is the same length.

Then they say however it is less lumens per watt. that is true. If you get 2 x T8 tubes and add up the lumens then get 1 T5HO that is the same wattage as the 2 T8s added together then the T8s will be higher.

This is because of the nature of the beast. T5HO are overdriven. Their advantage is more light in smaller space. The trade off is that for the advantage you lose a little bit. however it means you can have a smaller unit with higher light. Particularly useful in reef.

That is not our goal though. We shouldn't be obsessed with packing huge light into small space in planted. We don't need huge light but we do need coverage and spread. The old style Juwel / Fluval hoods were quite good at this as they spaced the tubes out well. The modern style luminaires miss the point for planted and pack all the light in a pretty and nice aesthetically looking slimline unit. Looks good but then you need more light so that the further regions are getting enough.

That bulky outdated old unit was performing much more efficiently because it was better for coverage and spread and therefore needed less wattage!!! We must have pretty though rather than best performance!!!

I went to a lot of effort to make a diy light. It started out cheap and ended up costing as much as much as a dual T5HO light system cost here This is cheap because it is made by Current USA. Their fans are loud but that is an easy fix.

You prove my last comment right You are comparing your DIY unit with the retail unit and saying 'I could've bought the super dooper retail unit. Your unit will be better if you have spaced it out properly.

When doing a comparison you must always compare like for like. If your unit is spaced out well then you can't feel bad if it cost the same or even more than a retail unit where the tubes are packed in together.

If you compare your DIY unit to something better that is different then you have to be sure that it is better. In most cases for lighting a planted tank the retail units are nowhere near being better.

I prefer the T5 to T8 for my 29 gallon tank, 30in, because the the T5s come in 30 inches. The T8s are 24 inches.

Also I found with T5HO I would need to inject Co2 thus the tank would no longer be a low tank, which how I want to keep it.

Thats fine. T5NO outperforms T8NO. T5HO is the problem

AC