swordtail drama continues...

[Kendramc]

so, since this is devolving into a largely irrelevant argument, my fish deaths cannot be linked to water changes. or to any other additions to the tank. i have track that sort of thing and it is unrelated.

i did a spell of very low maintenance (i had a baby 8 months ago, that makes it hard to keep up on anything). fish died at the same rate as when i've done weekly water changes.

i medicated (one round, per the directions on the package) because nothing else seemed to work, it doesn't seem to have helped either. the only other chemical i put in my tank is Prime when i do a water change.

water conditions are tracked to make sure there are no unexpected changes or obvious problems. there have been neither, but checking doesn't hurt and can be useful to rule out possible problems. yes, some people in the various responses do seem to have focused on them more than i feel was reasonable, but since i have no idea why my fish keep dying i'm not going to say they are wrong to do so. it seems to have proven unnecessary, but it could have been helpful.

i'm not bothering to try for softer water until these last two swordtails either die or survive a few months, at which point i will figure out what i want to do. and the idea of the RO unit isn't for the aquarium, that would just be a side benefit. and i will transition to softer water slowly so as to limit the stress of the change on my plecos.

 

[emeraldking]

If not, it’s a simple genetic problem and you should stop buying from whatever pet store you got the others from.

Well, you also need to know wether those fish from different stores came from the same wholesaler. For if the cause of it all ain't in the tank itself at the OP's place, it can also be a problem already at the wholesaler. So, not just a store itself.

 

[kiko]

So I agree and disagree in many ways. Nowhere in this thread I have read about his water changes or tank maintenance habits but Im assuming this is probably a long going issue for this guy or gal.
I agree that at some point yes, you need to step back and as you mentioned, not sure how the 50% water changes were done or how often and yes, big change in temp is obviously detrimental to the fish.
What I disagree on... nothing wrong with a 50% water change weekly or by-weekly more or less depending on the bio-load, feeding habits etc. the word here is "depending" and of course, again that is assuming is done correctly.
Big disagreement on loading the tank with chemicals, meds, salt etc. not only can it easily overwhelm filtration but at the end of the day probably not beneficial for the fish.
Also, there is no need to be a chemist to have a fish tank, this is where many newcomers fail, they get overwhelmed with too much information on water parameters and many times not the right information though it wouldn't hurt to know basic principles which are very simple and not often mentioned on how to keep your tank's water in optimal condition (no, not for me or to keep the water pristine clear but for the fish) and that simply requires fresh clean water through frequent water changes to avoid going back to the beginning of this thread.

well..as I've mentioned before...I've had these discussions about big water changes and at the end of the day people just expect them to be done properly
which more often than not...they're not. which is the main reason I don't suggest them or when I do I explain how
some might call it going overboard with extra steps...
but people would be surprised on how often the simplest thing that is common sense to some is just bypassed because they lucked out a few times
as for loading tank with chemicals...not my thing either...
regardless I just feel he needs to stop worrying a bit chill back..cause less stress on the fish with smaller water changes and stop adding chemicals and see how it goes

 

[Kendramc]

I just feel he needs to stop worrying a bit chill back..cause less stress on the fish with smaller water changes and stop adding chemicals and see how it goes

Did you miss my last post? I've tried that too. I went 4 months of basically just keeping the water level up. I've medicated once. My swordtails still die at a rate of about once a month.

 

[Colin_T]

Did you miss my last post? I've tried that too. I went 4 months of basically just keeping the water level up. I've medicated once. My swordtails still die at a rate of about once a month.

Try mixing the medication with food and feeding them 3 times a day for a week. If it helps, great. If it doesn't, well they were going to die anyway.

 

[kiko]

Did you miss my last post? I've tried that too. I went 4 months of basically just keeping the water level up. I've medicated once. My swordtails still die at a rate of about once a month.

You're not supposed to go without water changes
Read my previous posts, it explains how to do TDs water changes correctly

 

[Alice B]

it is just those 4 fish now. i've had up to i think 8 or 10 swordtails at one point, but they just kept dying. overpopulation doesn't seem like the problem


i'm thinking i'm just going to try something else. not sure what yet, but we are looking into getting an RO system, so i can have softer water and thus more reasonable options.

swordtails like hard water - what is your GH and KH? water changes are important too

 

[Kendramc]

swordtails like hard water - what is your GH and KH? water changes are important too

my water is harder than the test strips can measure. as per my first post, KH>240, GH>180 but not so high as to have affected my plecos.


and can people please stop with the water changes? it isn't related. the fish have been getting skinny and dying at the same rate in the same way (until the last one) regardless of how i do my water changes. i have done pretty much the entire spectrum of possibilities and it has had absolutely no impact. and this is with adding new fish in the meantime, so cumulative stress from any given method is ruled out too. i get that everyone is trying to help, but the contradictory instructions and the feeling that people aren't paying any attention to what i've said is not really helping.

 

[Kendramc]

Try mixing the medication with food and feeding them 3 times a day for a week. If it helps, great. If it doesn't, well they were going to die anyway.

this confuses me a bit. first, what kind of medication am i supposed to use? not the drug name, an actual example of the form of medication please.
and feed them 3x a day? they barely eat anything if i feed them once every day. there are only 2 swordtails in there and they really don't eat much. this feels like it will just lead to a lot of waste material, even if i do my best to get anything out afterward each time. i'm just not seeing how this would work.

 

[Byron]

this confuses me a bit. first, what kind of medication am i supposed to use? not the drug name, an actual example of the form of medication please.
and feed them 3x a day? they barely eat anything if i feed them once every day. there are only 2 swordtails in there and they really don't eat much. this feels like it will just lead to a lot of waste material, even if i do my best to get anything out afterward each time. i'm just not seeing how this would work.

In an earlier post @Colin_T suggested Metronidazole. I used this twice a few years apart for what was assumed by a marine biologist to be internal protozoan of some sort. It worked. Her advice was to mix it with food, as in the water it was significantly less effective, to the point of being useless. You can use dry flake food. Place some flake food in one of those plastic food zip-lock type bags, add metronidazole, shake them together and leave the bag sealed, it will keep for days. The flake food has moisture which will allow the drug to be infused into the flakes. Feed only this food. It will not harm other fish. She suggested once daily, for 10 days, with no other food.

As for metronidazole, it is in Seachem's Metroplex:

Seachem - MetroPlex

www.seachem.com

 

[Kendramc]

You're not supposed to go without water changes
Read my previous posts, it explains how to do TDs water changes correctly

i've read your initial post, and either you did a lot of your math wrong or you do not understand some of the chemistry involved.

1) pH and hardness, while related, are not the same thing. yes, i have a higher pH and very hard water, but saying "7.5 ph is on the harder side" is an incorrect statement.
2) if you looked at my original post and understood tds, you would have realized that the hardness of my water alone brings my tds to over 400. are you trying to say when it increases by 50ppm? or a 20% increase? because if so, that is what you should say.
3) bringing a pH of 7.5 down to 7.1 using distilled water is not a ratio of 19:1 tap to distilled. it is 1 tap to 5 distilled. as for a 19:1 ratio's affect on my hardness, it would be approximately KH>228 and GH>171. still high.
4) 20% of 30 gal is 6 gal. of course, i recognize that doesn't take into account the various solid things in my tank reducing the amount of water, but based on the information i provided, it makes the most sense to assume 30 gal of water and do the math there rather than assume what i have in my tank, especially without stating such assumptions.

these issues makes it difficult for me to take your advice. if i did what you said, as you said it, it wouldn't work. first, the given number of 300 for tds is not going to happen with my water. second, a 19:1 ratio of tap to distilled water would have almost no impact on my pH and not much to one on my hardness. third, the general lack of demonstrated understanding and basic math errors leaves me with very low confidence in anything you've said.

 

[Kendramc]

In an earlier post @Colin_T suggested Metronidazole. I used this twice a few years apart for what was assumed by a marine biologist to be internal protozoan of some sort. It worked. Her advice was to mix it with food, as in the water it was significantly less effective, to the point of being useless. You can use dry flake food. Place some flake food in one of those plastic food zip-lock type bags, add metronidazole, shake them together and leave the bag sealed, it will keep for days. The flake food has moisture which will allow the drug to be infused into the flakes. Feed only this food. It will not harm other fish. She suggested once daily, for 10 days, with no other food.

As for metronidazole, it is in Seachem's Metroplex:

Seachem - MetroPlex

www.seachem.com

thanks, i will give this a try. looks like my local store carries it, and i will be over that way tomorrow anyway. hopefully they have it in stock. feeding it once a day makes more sense than 3x a day to me.

 

[Byron]

thanks, i will give this a try. looks like my local store carries it, and i will be over that way tomorrow anyway. hopefully they have it in stock. feeding it once a day makes more sense than 3x a day to me.

Just thought of mentioning that "dry" flake food has to be fresh so it is moist. I opened a new container of I think it was New Life Spectrum flake, just to be certain. The fish did seem to eat some of the white drug itself, which is good. If they are hungry, the flake will attract them and cause them to hopefully eat it.

 

[Colin_T]

I used to use frozen foods when feeding medication to fish. I used bloodworms or brineshrimp. Put it in a fine mesh net and let the liquid drain out. Then mix some Metronidazole with the food and let it soak for a couple of minutes. Offer a few bits of food at a time and feed until the fish are full. Frozen foods are more likely to be eaten than dry foods so you get more medication into the fish. You can use dry food if you like but frozen tends to be more effective.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Let's remember to keep things civil, please. If you find that you just can't agree with someone, stop engaging with them. Thanks.