Swordtail cotton mouth?

[Laurabhspt]

Let me start by saying I know I have a major overstocking issue in a tank I inherited after in laws lost interest. It’s full of swordtails and I have 4 yo-yos and 2plecs. As I said major overstock. I’m trying to combat this whilst I wait for my 450l tank to be ready by doing regular water changes and filter cleans (not at same time). I bought some moss balls for the loaches and within a couple of weeks I had white spot, so I’ve just finished the white spot treatment (half dosage cos loaches) and done a 25% water change today as per instructions on the API bottle. Lovely clear water, all filter medium replaced today and UV steriliser turned back on. Now tank is super clear I can see a single sword rail with what looks like mouth rot. How do I treat?? Any advice is truly welcomed - I’m completely new to this - as I say I aquired an overstocked tank, I’ve already split some out into a borrowed tank, gave some to my sister, and am in the process of setting up a bigger tank and I’m really learning as I go. Thanks in advance!

 

[kiko]

well you should start with water parameters...
as for fish treatments you'll learn that in this hobby lots of things can be cured by using either salt or methylene blue
you can start by lowering you water temp to 23C to slow the progress of bacteria such as columnaris and using 1tbl spoon of salt for each 2 gallons of water for about a week to a week and a half
whenever you do a water change let's say 20%...the new water...just premix it first with salt for the amount of water you're adding not the tank capacity
(this way it'll slowly increase the salt concentration and not just adding salt into the tank for its capacity)
change the water every 2 days

Good luck

 

[Laurabhspt]

well you should start with water parameters...
as for fish treatments you'll learn that in this hobby lots of things can be cured by using either salt or methylene blue
you can start by lowering you water temp to 23C to slow the progress of bacteria such as columnaris and using 1tbl spoon of salt for each 2 gallons of water for about a week to a week and a half
whenever you do a water change let's say 20%...the new water...just premix it first with salt for the amount of water you're adding not the tank capacity
(this way it'll slowly increase the salt concentration and not just adding salt into the tank for its capacity)
change the water every 2 days

Good luck

Thankyou! I’m waiting on a water test kit as I currently have some strips but they are massively out of date so don’t know how reliable they are. Interestingly, I’ve just switched the light on and the white fluff on his mouth seems to have gone…? Is this common? Can he wipe it off on ornaments etc? I did turn the temp down last night as it was up higher than normal to kill the ich, so I’ve now started reducing that back down. Will it pass to others?
Thankyou for your reply!

 

[Laurabhspt]

Actually his lower lip, although not fluffy, does look a tad swollen and he’s feisty this morning - he’s been ‘fighting’ with two other males - could they be bullying him because he is poorly?

 

[kiko]

if it was ich you'd see spots all over the fish which I don't...looks more like columnaris to me
and no..either can't be wiped off...
and yes both of them will spread

 

[Laurabhspt]

if it was ich you'd see spots all over the fish which I don't...looks more like columnaris to me
and no..either can't be wiped off...
and yes both of them will sprea I meant they had ich these last couple weeks so temp was up for that, and have been treated for that with medication this last week. It was after the final water change as part of that treatment and getting all the carbon etc back in the filter that I noticed his fluffy mouth.

Sorry I meant that they have recently been treated for ich, that’s why temp was up.

 

[Laurabhspt]

if it was ich you'd see spots all over the fish which I don't...looks more like columnaris to me
and no..either can't be wiped off...
and yes both of them will spread

Would you recommend I treat the whole tank or quarantine the sick one? And any product recs? I’m in the UK so from what I’m reading I seem pretty limited on the antibiotic front

 

[GaryE]

So, there is cotton mouth, which is dangerous, and there are wounds from males grabbing each others' mouths to wrestle, which isn't. When you have a lot of male swords, those mouth wounds happen. It sounds like the latter.
Columnaris likes warmer water, so you aren't out of the woods yet, but it sounds very possible that it's just a passing wound.
Longterm,you have to thin the herd and lose the plecos.
I would not medicate, but I would get the meds. We're in different countries so I can't tell you what to get, but an internet search might pay off. Watch closely. If the cottony growth spreads, treat it. If the male is a once dominant one in age decline, watch his feisty young buddies don't kill him.

 

[Laurabhspt]

So, there is cotton mouth, which is dangerous, and there are wounds from males grabbing each others' mouths to wrestle, which isn't. When you have a lot of male swords, those mouth wounds happen. It sounds like the latter.
Columnaris likes warmer water, so you aren't out of the woods yet, but it sounds very possible that it's just a passing wound.
Longterm,you have to thin the herd and lose the plecos.
I would not medicate, but I would get the meds. We're in different countries so I can't tell you what to get, but an internet search might pay off. Watch closely. If the cottony growth spreads, treat it. If the male is a once dominant one in age decline, watch his feisty young buddies don't kill him.

Thanks! Out of curiousity, why lose the plecs? They have been in the tank from the beginning when the in laws set the tank up, along with the swords, and never been an issue. As I mentioned I’m relatively new to this so just trying to understand.

If it is Columnaris, would you remove the plecs and loaches to a separate tank and salt the whole aquarium, or would you put the fish showing signs in quarantine and do it that way?

Thanks again!

 

[DoubleDutch]

First solve the overstockingissue.
Columnaris is always present in a tank and infects fish when weakened, stressed, etc....
Putting it differently : The overstocking is the most probable cause. If you don't solve that first you can treat what you want and as lojg as you want but still fish will get infected.

 

[GaryE]

The Pleco problem is a bit of a house cow problem... because cows are what they poop like. They don't eat algae past a certain age, and they can easily hit 16 inches, if they are common plecos. So you have a fish people buy because, well because, that gets huge and poops like a hippo. They challenge your water quality, and often cause the death of tankmates through their waste load.
They also create so much work for fishkeepers, and drive you into easier things. They make it difficult.
I don't know why stores push them for newcomers. It's almost like a tradition gone wrong. They should warn purchasers, but instead, they sell these fish like they are needed. It's a shame.
If you love them, and many do, you have to set up large tanks just for them. With top line filtration and lots of water changes, they can be very large, long lived pets.

You've inherited the equivalent of an out of control garden, where some plants can choke others. Too many swordtails and 2 plecos are a challenge to keep going, and in my experience, people often give away tanks that are close to the tipping point. It's not hard to remedy with some rehoming.

I agree with the very experienced @DoubleDutch that all the meds in the world won't solve things. A lot of inexperiened aquarists run straight to test kits for ammonia, and if that's clear, they don't consider bacterial load, etc - the things the kits can't tell them.

 

[Laurabhspt]

Thankyou both. Yes I’m trying my best to get the stocking issue under control, I’ve already set up another tank and moved lots in there, I gave lots away to my sisters tank and her friends, but no one else wants them! I approached fish shops as well and they won’t take them, and these damn things just keep breeding! So as soon as I shift them another load come along.

I have a 450litre tank I’m in the process of setting up, but yes I know I need to sort the stocking issue out to prevent illness, it’s going to take time to sort out. Any ideas for how to get rid of them please please advise.

Thanks for the clarification on the plecos, I Don’t think the plecs are common, they are relatively small, have two little white tips on tails. I’ve tried to look them up but so many I wasn’t sure what they are, but will certainly bear that in mind.

Thank you everyone for all the advice

 

[DoubleDutch]

Thankyou both. Yes I’m trying my best to get the stocking issue under control, I’ve already set up another tank and moved lots in there, I gave lots away to my sisters tank and her friends, but no one else wants them! I approached fish shops as well and they won’t take them, and these damn things just keep breeding! So as soon as I shift them another load come along.

I have a 450litre tank I’m in the process of setting up, but yes I know I need to sort the stocking issue out to prevent illness, it’s going to take time to sort out. Any ideas for how to get rid of them please please advise.

Thanks for the clarification on the plecos, I Don’t think the plecs are common, they are relatively small, have two little white tips on tails. I’ve tried to look them up but so many I wasn’t sure what they are, but will certainly bear that in mind.

Thank you everyone for all the advice

White tips point towards Bristlenoses

 

[kiko]

this is when automatic water changing systems come into play...
nowadays one can get a ph/tds controller for around 120bucks off of aliexpress
set the desired ph with a CO2 bottle/solenoid
then whatever tds it shows after a 25% water change...set the controller for 1.5 times that
connected to a water valve with a solenoid (costs around 20 bucks)
everytime the water gets to let's say 400tds the controller starts the tds power socket with the water valve which fills up the tank until the tds drops below whatever value you set it at..
which is turn the overflow in the tank would just dump whatever excess water into the drain
this is how it's done in many fish farms too so that they can overstock
if you do have access to a water source and a drain where you tank is...
it'll make the hobby so much easier xD
you should look into a drilled tank if you're getting a 450L

 

[Laurabhspt]

this is when automatic water changing systems come into play...
nowadays one can get a ph/tds controller for around 120bucks off of aliexpress
set the desired ph with a CO2 bottle/solenoid
then whatever tds it shows after a 25% water change...set the controller for 1.5 times that
connected to a water valve with a solenoid (costs around 20 bucks)
everytime the water gets to let's say 400tds the controller starts the tds power socket with the water valve which fills up the tank until the tds drops below whatever value you set it at..
which is turn the overflow in the tank would just dump whatever excess water into the drain
this is how it's done in many fish farms too so that they can overstock
if you do have access to a water source and a drain where you tank is...
it'll make the hobby so much easier xD
you should look into a drilled tank if you're getting a 450L

Wow this sounds great but also well out of my capability lol! I have the 450 it’s an old Rena one, just making sure everything’s clean etc and then I can get it set up and cycling. It’s too big to move around much so have to rely on my partner being available to help me clean it through.

Think it’s definitely Columnaris, as a couple others are showing signs now too. I’m going to set up some makeshift hospital tanks and see if I can thin the herd that way as well as then being able to medicate the symptomatic ones.

Any tips on getting a 450l cycling relatively quick then I’m all ears! (If they all survive to this point of course - gutted as the state they came to me in there was a literal inch of fish crap along the substrate and you couldn’t see in the tank. The tank is sparkling now and water parameters controllable with water changes and now they all start getting ill? Where’s the justice eh?)