Swordtail compatability

[Byron]

Ok, they really seem like amazing fish... I'll go for one or two of them then... but to get something for the top, could I rather replace my neon tetras with zebra danios?

I personally would not consider danios. All danios (thinking here of the common "danios" like the Zebra), like barbs, are fairly active swimmers. Sedate fish do not appreciate such activity, and the smaller the tank the more this matters. Neons are quiet fish, rams certainly are, and cories are not as active as danios. This is why the hatchetfish and pencilfish are so ideal for upper water fish, they too are fairly quiet fish.

If you want, you could provide a list of fish available locally that you like, and I could probably comment on their traits and suitability. This really is important. I have 8 tanks of fish, and I have fish in tank "A" that would never work in tank "B" or "C", or the reverse, solely because of their activity levels; the quieter fish in "B" would be stressed, and that means weakened, and more likely for disease, and always a shorter lifespan. It isn't fair to the fish to force them into "bad" surroundings.

Byron.

 

[Umbra]

I personally would not consider danios. All danios (thinking here of the common "danios" like the Zebra), like barbs, are fairly active swimmers. Sedate fish do not appreciate such activity, and the smaller the tank the more this matters. Neons are quiet fish, rams certainly are, and cories are not as active as danios. This is why the hatchetfish and pencilfish are so ideal for upper water fish, they too are fairly quiet fish.

If you want, you could provide a list of fish available locally that you like, and I could probably comment on their traits and suitability. This really is important. I have 8 tanks of fish, and I have fish in tank "A" that would never work in tank "B" or "C", or the reverse, solely because of their activity levels; the quieter fish in "B" would be stressed, and that means weakened, and more likely for disease, and always a shorter lifespan. It isn't fair to the fish to force them into "bad" surroundings.

Byron.

In a nutshell, all the fish available to me is on this website: http://www.wazeersaquariums.co.za/
It is where I get most of my fish and it's only an hour's drive away from here.

Edit: What if I replace my neon tetras with neon dwarf rainbowfish? They are a bit bigger and they swim a bit higher, right? and I think my conditons are alright for those too...

 

[Byron]

There are hundreds of fish there...you didn't say which you might like. But as a start, thinking of soft water fish for the upper half of the tank, have a look at these tetras (look them up on SF for data, but I'm familiar with these):
Kerri Tetra
Penguin Tetra
Pristella
Flame Tetra
Pencilfish (know you didn't like, but the one listed (Nannostomusw marginatus) would be well suited

I've avoided any fin nippers (some of those are nasty). The Emperor Tetra and Black Emperor, maybe, but the Kerri Tetra is I think better here.

 

[Umbra]

There are hundreds of fish there...you didn't say which you might like. But as a start, thinking of soft water fish for the upper half of the tank, have a look at these tetras (look them up on SF for data, but I'm familiar with these):
Kerri Tetra
Penguin Tetra
Pristella
Flame Tetra
Pencilfish (know you didn't like, but the one listed (Nannostomusw marginatus) would be well suited

I've avoided any fin nippers (some of those are nasty). The Emperor Tetra and Black Emperor, maybe, but the Kerri Tetra is I think better here.

Oh shoot, some of those are really nice! Thanks for the suggestions, I will definately try those out when I make a stop over there again! Quick question, I have read that congo tetras also like to swim near the top of the water. would they be alright with my neons and corydoras? if so, then My mind is set.

 

[Byron]

Oh shoot, some of those are really nice! Thanks for the suggestions, I will definately try those out when I make a stop over there again! Quick question, I have read that congo tetras also like to swim near the top of the water. would they be alright with my neons and corydoras? if so, then My mind is set.

The tank length...earlier it is given as 4 feet (90 cm), I have assumed since this is a 30 gallon that the 90 cm is correct, which is 3 feet, not 4. ?? Congo Tetra (Phenacogrammus interruptus) are active swimmers at times; I have had this species in my 4-foot 90g for several years, and many years ago I had a group in my 4-foot 55g. While they do tend to "hover" much of the time, they have bouts of "display" and can be quite fast swimmers. I refer to the activity of mine as relay races; two males will charge down the tank full length, side by side, sometimes with a third male joining in. I would recommend this species in anything less than a 4-foot tank. As for their position in the water, they remain almost mid-tank.

Another very similar fish but a bit smaller and one that could manage in a 3-foot tank is Diamond Tetra, Moenkhausia pittieri. The common name "diamond" is well given, as this fish sparkles under overhead light that is not too bright. It can have bouts of activity, but it is not as rambunctious as danios. Remains roughly mid-tank. I have a grou of 11 (half of which are grown fry) in my 4-foot 70g, but a group of 7-8 would work in a 3-foot.

Something I missed previously, is to increase the group of neons. Six is frequently the minimum number recommended, but all shoaling fish will always be better with more. Here I would add another 4-5 to have 10-11. The 8 cories is fine, though again a few more won't hurt. They are very social fish.

Byron.

 

[Umbra]

The tank length...earlier it is given as 4 feet (90 cm), I have assumed since this is a 30 gallon that the 90 cm is correct, which is 3 feet, not 4. ?? Congo Tetra (Phenacogrammus interruptus) are active swimmers at times; I have had this species in my 4-foot 90g for several years, and many years ago I had a group in my 4-foot 55g. While they do tend to "hover" much of the time, they have bouts of "display" and can be quite fast swimmers. I refer to the activity of mine as relay races; two males will charge down the tank full length, side by side, sometimes with a third male joining in. I would recommend this species in anything less than a 4-foot tank. As for their position in the water, they remain almost mid-tank.

Another very similar fish but a bit smaller and one that could manage in a 3-foot tank is Diamond Tetra, Moenkhausia pittieri. The common name "diamond" is well given, as this fish sparkles under overhead light that is not too bright. It can have bouts of activity, but it is not as rambunctious as danios. Remains roughly mid-tank. I have a grou of 11 (half of which are grown fry) in my 4-foot 70g, but a group of 7-8 would work in a 3-foot.

Something I missed previously, is to increase the group of neons. Six is frequently the minimum number recommended, but all shoaling fish will always be better with more. Here I would add another 4-5 to have 10-11. The 8 cories is fine, though again a few more won't hurt. They are very social fish.

Byron.

Whoops, yeah, my tank is a 3 foot, I made a mistake there O_O As for the tetras, I will now limit my choices to only the ones you suggested And yeah, I also started to consider adding a few more neons. it would definately bring them out more atleast. as for my corydoras... idk, there is a lot of space for them, but it almost feels a bit crowded on the ground. would it help if I add a picture of my tank?

 

[Umbra]

Here is my tank. Its a bit dirty, I just did a sand vac and changed some of the decor around. the plants are java ferns, hornworts and 2 amazon swords. Also, the camera is a bit... screwy, but there really is almost no tannins in my tank despite it looking like there is O_O

 

[Byron]

Whoops, yeah, my tank is a 3 foot, I made a mistake there O_O As for the tetras, I will now limit my choices to only the ones you suggested And yeah, I also started to consider adding a few more neons. it would definately bring them out more atleast. as for my corydoras... idk, there is a lot of space for them, but it almost feels a bit crowded on the ground. would it help if I add a picture of my tank?

We all like pictures.

One of my tanks is a 3-foot 33g which is probably the same in dimensions as what you have, so it is always easy for me to imagine this or that fish, in this or that numbers, in my tank's space. I personally feel smaller-sized fish species are better in tanks under 4 feet. First, you can have more of them, so it is a more natural setting for the fish to react (the more in a shoal, usually the happier/healthier the fish will be). And more fish means more interest for the aquarist. All relative obviously, but still worth considering.

I'll add some photos of the 33g, which has gone through a number of re-aquascapes over the last 8 years. These are just a few of them. This tank seems to have been "revised" more than any other, probably because the size makes this easier to do. The first one, which is a fairly authentic Sri Lankan stream biotope, is the present aquascape, designed for my shoal of Black Ruby Barbs which occur in this river system.

 

[Umbra]

We all like pictures.

One of my tanks is a 3-foot 33g which is probably the same in dimensions as what you have, so it is always easy for me to imagine this or that fish, in this or that numbers, in my tank's space. I personally feel smaller-sized fish species are better in tanks under 4 feet. First, you can have more of them, so it is a more natural setting for the fish to react (the more in a shoal, usually the happier/healthier the fish will be). And more fish means more interest for the aquarist. All relative obviously, but still worth considering.

I'll add some photos of the 33g, which has gone through a number of re-aquascapes over the last 8 years. These are just a few of them. This tank seems to have been "revised" more than any other, probably because the size makes this easier to do. The first one, which is a fairly authentic Sri Lankan stream biotope, is the present aquascape, designed for my shoal of Black Ruby Barbs which occur in this river system.

Your tank looks amazing! I have to wait for my swords and java ferns grow a bit larger before I can actually do a more desirable aquascape... I could probably fill my tank a bit more too now that I think of it, but I'm just afraid the glass may crack... I'm a bit paranoid.

 

[Byron]

Your tank looks amazing! I have to wait for my swords and java ferns grow a bit larger before I can actually do a more desirable aquascape... I could probably fill my tank a bit more too now that I think of it, but I'm just afraid the glass may crack... I'm a bit paranoid.

Thank you. I would suggest more wood, lots more. Then let the plants grow in.

 

[Umbra]

Thank you. I would suggest more wood, lots more. Then let the plants grow in.

I'm also thinking of adding more wood.

I just did a bit of research on the swimming regions of the fish you recommended and they all seem to be mid-bottom swimmers naturally.

 

[Byron]

I'm also thinking of adding more wood.

I just did a bit of research on the swimming regions of the fish you recommended and they all seem to be mid-bottom swimmers naturally.

The species in post #18 are mid- to upper-level species. Diamond Tetras similarly. Congos mid-tank. Where did you find to the contrary?

 

[Umbra]

The species in post #18 are mid- to upper-level species. Diamond Tetras similarly. Congos mid-tank. Where did you find to the contrary?

I just read around on forums that people always see them swimming around the same level as neons. (apparently I did not actually post my reply O_O )

 

[Byron]

I just read around on forums that people always see them swimming around the same level as neons. (apparently I did not actually post my reply O_O )

That has not been my experience over 20+ years as an aquartist. But it does raise something that might explain it.

Neon Tetra are generally mid-to lower-level fish in the water column, as are cardinals and the false or green neon tetra. The other species I suggested should be mid- to upper-level. When fish species that tend to inhabit the upper levels move lower down there is usually a reason.

One reason is light. All of these fish occur in dimly-lit waters, and they do not appreciate overhead lighting especially if it is bright (to the fish). I won't get into this now, I have posted at great length in a couple other threads on how light affects fish, but just summarize and say that light has a profound effect on fish as it is assimilated not only through their eyes but every cell, and with fish this light sensitivity is much higher than most other animals (like humans). This causes stress, and evokes a fear response. Baensch & Riel in their Atlas term it a "light phobia" among characins.

The other thing is the water surface. Floating plants should really be considered an essential part of an aquarium housing most species of tropical fish. This is natural; fish habitats are very rarely open to the sky, and if they are, it is not surprising that the fish tend to be found along the shore, where there will be a carpet of floating plants above them. Most of the tropical watercourses are overshadowed by forest canopy, through which sunlight and moonight never penetrate to the water. So this means most of the fish come from watercourses that are shaded either by terrestrial vegetation, forest canopy, or floating plants.

Providing a nice cover of floating plants will always embolden fish. I have seen it many times in my own tanks, when I may thin out the floating plants and the fish for several days will be lower in the water, until the thicker cover returns. So it is most likely that people are not using floating plants, or the tank light is too bright, if species that should be up in the water column are actually remaining lower down.

This brings me to an observation I have whenever I see a photo of one of Amano's beautiful tanks, which almost never have floating plants. The fish are almost always down among the plants. The above is the reason.

And that is something I forgot to mention previously...along with more wood, find some nice floating plants.

Byron.

 

[Umbra]

That has not been my experience over 20+ years as an aquartist. But it does raise something that might explain it.

Neon Tetra are generally mid-to lower-level fish in the water column, as are cardinals and the false or green neon tetra. The other species I suggested should be mid- to upper-level. When fish species that tend to inhabit the upper levels move lower down there is usually a reason.

One reason is light. All of these fish occur in dimly-lit waters, and they do not appreciate overhead lighting especially if it is bright (to the fish). I won't get into this now, I have posted at great length in a couple other threads on how light affects fish, but just summarize and say that light has a profound effect on fish as it is assimilated not only through their eyes but every cell, and with fish this light sensitivity is much higher than most other animals (like humans). This causes stress, and evokes a fear response. Baensch & Riel in their Atlas term it a "light phobia" among characins.

The other thing is the water surface. Floating plants should really be considered an essential part of an aquarium housing most species of tropical fish. This is natural; fish habitats are very rarely open to the sky, and if they are, it is not surprising that the fish tend to be found along the shore, where there will be a carpet of floating plants above them. Most of the tropical watercourses are overshadowed by forest canopy, through which sunlight and moonight never penetrate to the water. So this means most of the fish come from watercourses that are shaded either by terrestrial vegetation, forest canopy, or floating plants.

Providing a nice cover of floating plants will always embolden fish. I have seen it many times in my own tanks, when I may thin out the floating plants and the fish for several days will be lower in the water, until the thicker cover returns. So it is most likely that people are not using floating plants, or the tank light is too bright, if species that should be up in the water column are actually remaining lower down.

This brings me to an observation I have whenever I see a photo of one of Amano's beautiful tanks, which almost never have floating plants. The fish are almost always down among the plants. The above is the reason.

And that is something I forgot to mention previously...along with more wood, find some nice floating plants.

Byron.

oooohhhhh, Ok, that makes sense O_O Will 2x20 watt t8, 2 foot aquarium lights be considered "too bright" for the fish? I want to grow plants in my tank and if I dim the lights, I'm afraid it will let the plants die (So far I just Have hornwort though I'm letting them sit on the ground for now, java fern and amazonian swords... and some cobra grass)

At the Most I can decrease my total wattage by 4 watts for my lights