Swim bladder - red streaks, etc.

[BettaMomma]

Charlie had velvet. He apparently had it for a while before I noticed it (he was on a co-worker's desk and she didn't realize he had issues)...
I treated him with coppersafe, salt and some colloidal. It looked like he was finally getting over the nasty itching problem. Then he got red streaks on his fins and his tail started to separate and get stringy. Now it looks like he's got swim bladder problems. I treated him last week with Maracyn Two for internal infection and swim bladder - and almost immediately when I started treating him, his swim bladder issues disappeared. By the end of the week he seemed to be improving, and that's when the medication dosing period ended.

Left for the weekend, came in today, and everything's back. The velvet (just checked w/a flashlight), the swim bladder (he can't come down from the top of the water and he sort of tips to the side when he sits still) and his tail now has a split in the middle. He's just swimmgin around the tank making little bubbles everywhere...

Need some advice. Not sure what to do next with this. He's still got coppersafe in his tank from when he was treated before.

Actually I think his swim bladder issue flares up right after I feed him - he gets 4 pellets in the morning. I'll try to spread that out to help that problem - but what should I do about the red streaks and stuff?

 

[BettaMomma]

Anybody have anything for me?

 

[The-Wolf]

the red streaks indicate Hemorrhagic Septicemia
this can be treated with a broad range anti-bacterial
I've heard that bettafix will also help cure this,
provided it is not the viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia
that can not be cured.

 

[3fsh]

I think it's always a good idea to do two treatments, even if it looks like they are completely better. For the swim bladder, it helps to spread out their feedings quite a bit. ie- 1 pellet 4 times a day instead of 2 in the morning and at night. My little guy popeye always seems to have problems swimming when I don't do his water changes on time. I think a large change with warm, dechlorinated water is in order! As far as the red streaks go... you might want to try an antibiotic such as Maracyn II at half dose so you don't stress out his poor little body any more.

 

[BettaMomma]

the red streaks indicate Hemorrhagic Septicemia
this can be treated with a broad range anti-bacterial
I've heard that bettafix will also help cure this,
provided it is not the viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia
that can not be cured.

I've dealt with Hemmoraghic Septicemia - in Jasper. Not fun stuff, but I had thought that could be part of the problem. uugh

Won't half dosing him cause issues with immunity to the meds?

I will give him a water change this afternoon.
His water has been at 80 degrees for the velvet.
Do I need to back off the temp a bit too?

 

[WILDER]

Two may deseases pilling up not holding much hope i'm afraid, sorry.

 

[BettaMomma]

Not very encouraging...
I really really really don't want to have to deal with another fish death.
Man..

 

[WILDER]

miracles happen, but when desease mounts up the odds are against you, hope he does pull through for you, good luck.

 

[3fsh]

Won't half dosing him cause issues with immunity to the meds?

Not at all... I have half dosed many times for very fragile or sensitive fish and they have been cured, it just took a little bit longer. It's kind of the same with humans... if you have a sinus infection that isn't too bad, they can give you small dosages of anti-biotics to take for a couple of weeks... if you have a sinus infection that is really bad, they give you 3 huge pills that clear it up right away. The second option is harder on your system, but clears it up faster.

 

[eudielynn]

I'm also an advocate of half dosing. I am always afraid of overdosing my little guys and I usually find that less is more. It may take them a little longer to recover, but I don't think it stresses them nearly as bad. I don't think I have ever had to go back and give a full dose, but then I haven't had the same problems you are running into. JMHO.

 

[wuvmybetta]

*sigh*
Bettamomma, I know you hate seeing your fish suffer,it truly is heartbreaking. May I suggest one thing without offending? )

Ditch the heaters.
I know you've invested $$$$ in them, but I honestly, sincerely believe that fluctuation is the key to healthy fish.

This week, here in Texas, we hit 99 degrees just like that. It reached 91 in my house and my bettas looked like they wanted to jump in a pool of ice water (but I told them no, I'll turn on the ac instead). The temp dropped 10+ degrees in less than 30 minutes and no one here was complaining But when it was hot, I was actually scared I was going to lose a couple because they just couldn't take it.

Now, here's a dirty little secret (on a public board,d'oh!) at our district show, the AC thermostat was in a lock box and they kept it at 68 degrees. We didn't even realize it Friday night while setting up, but on Saturday morning all of the fish were very still and motionless. We tested the bowl water and they were at 60 The judges couldn't even judge them,thier color was gone and they wouldn't flare. Not one loss though. I turned up the thermostat (had to wiggle my way in) and it quickly warmed up in there and the bettas were as happy as can be in just a couple of hours. While we were all sitting around eating dinner and viewing the fish from the table, I commented on how great the fish looked now and we laughed about that morning. Not that it was funny...just out of relief.

I've thought a LOT about that since then....it seems that they can tolerate the cooler temperatures better than they can the hot. A guy in my club lost his entire fishroom last summer because he had no AC, they all died within days of each other.
Also, several of those fish at the show were mine, and about a dozen extras came home with me that day and I never saw any signs of ich or any stress/disease. Every fish handled it like a champ.
Point being, maybe now that the winter months are going away, you can try to go heaterless and see if your kids do better. What do they keep the thermostat at in your workplace? Just out of curiosity...

 

[BettaMomma]

You're not offending. I'd yell at you if you were.
JUST kidding. lol

I'm ready to try ANYthing at this point - but here's the thing...
Charlie never had a heater before - he just got this way because he was on my coworker's desk and I didn't know he was sick, so he's had velvet for weeks before I realized it. He was here in the office in the cube right next to mine, where Jasper, Lucky and Six were also. None of them have any issues.

Everyone that I've upgraded to a tank at home that has a heater with a steady temp of 78 degrees is now bubblenesting like crazy. Nobody that doesn't have heaters is bubblenesting, or ever has, except Six who did for one day when the weather was weird... Even Lucky - who I took home this past weekend from the office to upgrade to a 2.5G tank from a 1G tank - is now bubblenesting, for the first time since I got him, only after the upgrade to the heated tank.

Does this mean they like the steady temps with the 78 degrees more than not? I don't know, because I'm not 100% convinced they bubblenest only when they're happy. I think they do it when they're not bored, or they like something new that has been given to them, or for weird weather, or possibly many other things. Who knows.

Now, going back to Harvey and Archie - as soon as they got into their 10G heated tank, Harvey's tail started growing back immediately. All of it grew back, there was beautiful healthy growth there. He had finally stopped biting it and it was growing beautifully! Although suddenly it's started to sort of deteriorate again. And he's not biting it now - it looks like it's just starting to get thin and flimsy again. The colloidal doesn't even seem to matter.

Another tank I have - with petey and gabriel in it - they both have finrot. Petey had it bad when I got him, gabriel had it a tad when I got him. Petey ripped a big ol' hunk of fin off after he got into the tank. He was obviously pissed about something.

I don't know what the problem is with them, I feel like I take excellent care of them. I spend so much time with them my family often makes fun of me that my fish are my new family and they're just people that happen to be hanging around.

I have decided that I am NOT getting any more fish whatsoever - sick/dying or healthy - until I can get everyone back to health and figure out what the issue is.

I am about to the point where I want to give my fish away to someone who has better luck, better water,... better something. Cuz I seem to be failing miserably.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I wonder if it IS something with your water supply then It could be some sort of deficiency or something they add that increases the stress level...
Could be as simple as copper pipes

Do you have a lfs that sells RO water? If so you can buy it by the 5 gallon jugs and cut it into your regular water, maybe 75/25 at first and slowly move to 50/50. Also, I can't sing the praises of Amazon Rain enough. It makes your water more acidic (as will RO) and it supplies many water soluble vitamins. Most importantly (imo) vitamin A&B,which indoor fish lack immensely. Black water extract is good too.

 

[BettaMomma]

One other thing I wanted to ask you - are all the bettas you have ones you've bred yourself?

Do you have any from say, a Walmart or PetSmart?
And what's Amazon Rain?

 

[wuvmybetta]

Yeah, I have quite a few from Wal-Mart...only a couple from Petsmart (they usually keep their fish looking well around here, the couple I have are because my daughter gave me the "He wants to come home with us" song and dance)
Those all stay in my bedroom though. I used to have em all over the house but after I set up the betta room, I had to stash the others in my room because it seems that every time I turned around....someone was looking at me

I've searched and searched for an AR link for ya, but nothing comes up with info, here's what it looks like though...
http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...=1&N=2004&Nty=1
The back says...(I'm typing this out so... )
Buffers Water:
It is very important to keep soft water fish in water which is similar to their native waters. Improperly conditioned water is the main cause of constant stress, disease and unsuccessful breeding. Buffering the water is significant in order to support the PH and to help resist ph change.

"reduces General Hardness":
Without sufficient general water hardness, PH can fall very quickly in an "acid fall". Acid Fall can result in sudden death of discus and other soft water fish. General hardness is also key in the regulation of the fish's blood calcium level and osmoregulation. Amazon Rain contains calcium carbonates and biocarbonates (to promote carbonate hardness) for proper general hardness requirements.

Enriched with Aquatic Vitamins:
Proper nutrition will produce healthy,colorful and disease resistant fish. Many prepared foods do not contain essential nutrients to support the needs of soft water fish. AR is formulated with pharmaceutical-grade stabilized vitamin C, in addition to a stress reducing naturally extracted, bio-absorbable form of B2,B6 and B12 vitamins.

Contains live Disease fighting Pro-Biotic Protector Bacteria:
Soft water fish are extremely susceptible to disease. AR contains billions of "bacterial body gaurds" that help to protect your fish from many aquatic diseases including hole in the head, Pop eye, Ick and fin rot.

There, I've wished I had that typed out a million times, but now it's done I can copy and paste in the future like a fool,like a fool! apparently I lied about the vitamin A though )

EDIT- typoville