Swim bladder problem query

[KHH]

Update: the ill fish has now died.

Hello! I am new to the forum. Have had an aquarium for awhile but still very much a beginner in knowledge!
Context: I have a 30 gallon tank. I added a few fish (3 Cory’s and 2 Dwarf Gouramis) on Sunday. I have “room” for several more fish so there should be no issue with over crowding. All was well until after feed this morning (Friday) when I found this dwarf gourami floating, vertically, nose up. Thought it had died but when I went to remove it, it’s very much alive. Tested water, all ok, though chlorine may be a bit high so I added Prime to the whole tank. I don’t have a 2nd tank for quarantine or treatment. Removed it to a large jar while I observed and researched. It mostly floats at top but also struggles to swim straight when trying to move. Nearly certain it is swim bladder problem, possibly from eating floating food too quickly.
Recommendation seems to be to reduce stress by removing it from other fish who may bothering it (which they were) and allow it to fast for 3 days while also keeping warm. Don’t have a way to keep water in jar warm so…my solution is jar upside down in tank (see photo).

My query: oxygenation in the jar? How often might I need to refresh the water in there. Might the bubble I left at the top be sufficient? For how long? Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

What most especially beginning aquarists term "swim bladder problem" can be caused by several very different things, from water parameters (these refer only to GH, KH, pH and temperature), water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, high nitrate), genetics, internal disease/health issues, etc. In other words, the inability to swim properly is a symptom of one of many possible problems.

Diagnosing fish problems is anything but easy for most of us. The fact that several issues can cause the same symptom(s) makes this next to impossible, but sometimes we can get close by reviewing the data, so we ask questions. Eliminating "x" may help us get to the actual underlying cause.

What are the parameters of the source water (GH, pH here) and temperature? Have you tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and if yes, with what results? How long have you had the tank and was it cycled and if yes how?

You mention chlorine being high...is this the tank water?

 

[KHH]

Welcome to TFF.

What most especially beginning aquarists term "swim bladder problem" can be caused by several very different things, from water parameters (these refer only to GH, KH, pH and temperature), water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, high nitrate), genetics, internal disease/health issues, etc. In other words, the inability to swim properly is a symptom of one of many possible problems.

Diagnosing fish problems is anything but easy for most of us. The fact that several issues can cause the same symptom(s) makes this next to impossible, but sometimes we can get close by reviewing the data, so we ask questions. Eliminating "x" may help us get to the actual underlying cause.

What are the parameters of the source water (GH, pH here) and temperature? Have you tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and if yes, with what results? How long have you had the tank and was it cycled and if yes how?

You mention chlorine being high...is this the tank water?

Byron, thank you for your reply.
I’ve had the aquarium for about 7 years but haven’t done a great deal to expand my knowledge in that time. I typically cycle the water monthly, replacing 10-12 gallons (out of 30). I have a glass lid so I lose little to evaporation and rarely have to add water between cycles. I last did this about 3 weeks ago, 2 weeks before introducing the new fish. I tested the water before and during the acclimation to avoid pH shock for the newbies. I use the Tetra Easy Strips for: Nitrite, Nitrate, hardness (GH), chlorine, alkalinity (KH), and pH. Water was within safe limits for all things at that time. The strips are color coded so it’s hard to give precise details. Today I noticed that the chlorine pad was slightly colored, not quite to .5ppm but not 0 either. Water temp is 76 and consistently b/w 76-78. I have a bubbler and a charcoal filter and the spout breaks the surface tension at the top to also bubble for oxygenation.
Repeating the tests now:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: hard to read but 20 ppmish
Nitrite: seems b/w 0-.5 (a little color)
GH: 300
Chlorine: 0
KH: about 40
pH: about 7.2

Any thoughts about the oxygen in my in-tank quarantine jar?

Thanks,
~Kara

 

[Byron]

Wil comment on dwarf gourami...these are normally shipped in from farms in the far east and can (still) be carriers of iridovirus which is untreatable. I would myself euthanize the ailing dwarf gourami and keep a close eye on the other. You already have it, but this is a species to avoid unless you can get fish direct from the breeder in NA.

On the same fish, it is also a possibility that you have two males, and that could well mean you will have one when they have settled their differences. Male gourami are like male cichlids...very territorial, and this intensifies in some spcies or with some individual males.

To other issues...your water is very hard, at 300ppm (= 16 dH). This may harm the cories, which species? And over the past 7 years, what has occurred with other fish?

Nitrite above zero is a problem, though one I would never expect with live plants present. Maybe an inaccurate test/result?

 

[KHH]

Wil comment on dwarf gourami...these are normally shipped in from farms in the far east and can (still) be carriers of iridovirus which is untreatable. I would myself euthanize the ailing dwarf gourami and keep a close eye on the other. You already have it, but this is a species to avoid unless you can get fish direct from the breeder in NA.

On the same fish, it is also a possibility that you have two males, and that could well mean you will have one when they have settled their differences. Male gourami are like male cichlids...very territorial, and this intensifies in some spcies or with some individual males.

To other issues...your water is very hard, at 300ppm (= 16 dH). This may harm the cories, which species? And over the past 7 years, what has occurred with other fish?

Nitrite above zero is a problem, though one I would never expect with live plants present. Maybe an inaccurate test/result?

I don’t have live plants. I originally had 2 angels and plants were not recommended. They died about 2 years ago or so, so I could try live plants now. Trouble has been sourcing. I moved away from the Milwaukee area where there is a quality aquarium place with a good rep. I moved to rural Northwoods WI and after a few years found a spot that was recommended, about an hour away. (Where I maybe got some bad advice/sick fish re: the gouramis). It always feels like a big risk to add any thing from another tank so I’ve been maybe over-cautious about adding live plants.
I do add salt as recommended when I do water changes so I can reduce that to lessen the hardness. I’d planned a change maybe next weekend after the new fish had some more time to acclimate. I could do it this weekend instead.
My last attempt to add new fish from the place up here went well. All thriving 4 (or so) months later. My previous try was disaster. Most of my original fish had finally passed during the pandemic so, when I was able to find a place to go to restock (and when it reopened for business) I got way too many all at once. More than 1/2 died and I didn’t know why and neither did they. I later figured out that I overwhelmed the tank with so much new life all at once. (The current staff at the place seem more knowledgeable…though they did just sell me the gouramis.)

So, your hypothesis is that I got a sick fish and it’s showing symptoms now and recommendation is I should get it out of the tank. Is there any hope that it just ate wrong and gulped water and will recover?

 

[Byron]

A couple serious issues here. First, water changes must be more often than once a month, especially with so little changed. Once a week is minimum, and all that should normally be needed, though more frequent is often one of the "cures" many of us recommend. But normally, once a week. And, more volume, around 50-70%. There are issues in the water we cannot test or recognize but they detrimentally affect all fish. Provided the parameters, here being GH, pH and temperature, are basically the same between tap and tank water, these will never cause problems for fish, quite the opposite.

Second related issue...salt. Never, absolutely never add salt to the water housing freshwater fish on a regular basis. Salt cause serious internal issues (see my linked article). As a treatment for a very specific health issue, where it is the safest and most effective for that issue, it is fine, but that is temporary. Decades ago salt was used indiscriminitely, but we now know different. It will not prevent anything; it is however useful for nitrite.

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Sorry I got mixed up on the plants...have been following two threads this morning and got mixed on that. Something as simple as floating plants would be worth it.

I don't know what to advise on the gourami, beyond what I've already pointed out. I do think both of them are probably trouble. Gourami breathe air, which is why they spend so much time near the surface. So I would not be worried over the jar on that account.

 

[KHH]

A couple serious issues here. First, water changes must be more often than once a month, especially with so little changed. Once a week is minimum, and all that should normally be needed, though more frequent is often one of the "cures" many of us recommend. But normally, once a week. And, more volume, around 50-70%. There are issues in the water we cannot test or recognize but they detrimentally affect all fish. Provided the parameters, here being GH, pH and temperature, are basically the same between tap and tank water, these will never cause problems for fish, quite the opposite.

Second related issue...salt. Never, absolutely never add salt to the water housing freshwater fish on a regular basis. Salt cause serious internal issues (see my linked article). As a treatment for a very specific health issue, where it is the safest and most effective for that issue, it is fine, but that is temporary. Decades ago salt was used indiscriminitely, but we now know different. It will not prevent anything; it is however useful for nitrite.

Contact Support

Sorry I got mixed up on the plants...have been following two threads this morning and got mixed on that. Something as simple as floating plants would be worth it.

I don't know what to advise on the gourami, beyond what I've already pointed out. I do think both of them are probably trouble. Gourami breathe air, which is why they spend so much time near the surface. So I would not be worried over the jar on that account.

Thank you for the information, advice, and your time. I did wonder about getting 2 males but trusted the staff person who made the recommendation. Should have gone with my gut. I’ll explore strategies to do water changes more often and I certainly can stop adding the salt when I do them.
Thanks again,
~Kara

 

[KHH]

A couple serious issues here. First, water changes must be more often than once a month, especially with so little changed. Once a week is minimum, and all that should normally be needed, though more frequent is often one of the "cures" many of us recommend. But normally, once a week. And, more volume, around 50-70%. There are issues in the water we cannot test or recognize but they detrimentally affect all fish. Provided the parameters, here being GH, pH and temperature, are basically the same between tap and tank water, these will never cause problems for fish, quite the opposite.

Second related issue...salt. Never, absolutely never add salt to the water housing freshwater fish on a regular basis. Salt cause serious internal issues (see my linked article). As a treatment for a very specific health issue, where it is the safest and most effective for that issue, it is fine, but that is temporary. Decades ago salt was used indiscriminitely, but we now know different. It will not prevent anything; it is however useful for nitrite.

Contact Support

Sorry I got mixed up on the plants...have been following two threads this morning and got mixed on that. Something as simple as floating plants would be worth it.

I don't know what to advise on the gourami, beyond what I've already pointed out. I do think both of them are probably trouble. Gourami breathe air, which is why they spend so much time near the surface. So I would not be worried over the jar on that account.

Just wanted to let you know the gourami has died. Darn it but not unexpected. Thanks again for your help today.

 

[Byron]

Just wanted to let you know the gourami has died. Darn it but not unexpected. Thanks again for your help today.

I expected this, sorry it occurred though. Hopefully going forward things are OK. I will just caution to carefully consider any additional fish because you already have fish that will not work with just any tankmates. Ask here on TFF first about "x" species, never and I do mean never trust fish store employees when it comes to data on a species.

 

[KHH]

I expected this, sorry it occurred though. Hopefully going forward things are OK. I will just caution to carefully consider any additional fish because you already have fish that will not work with just any tankmates. Ask here on TFF first about "x" species, never and I do mean never trust fish store employees when it comes to data on a species.

Sound advice. I’m going to hold off on any new additions for a few months. See if gourami #2 makes it. Then I’ll try again. I had been looking for something to add color, but not too many fish inches. My angels were fun but I wanted something different. Maybe another schooling variety or ?? I’ll start a new thread to get advice when the time comes. Thanks again for your help. (I did a 50% water change today with no salt .)