Sump Question, Design?

[Matthew5664]

Yep! You could run a Live Rock (LR) sump and have a high flow rate though it or slow the flow down and use a Deep Sand Bead (DSB) and/or Refuguem (sp) (FUGE). these basicley do the same job in differant ways. And as Ski said this is somewhere to put all the equpment.

 

[SkiFletch]

If you want to store all of your LR in your sump, go nuts. The nice thing about a sump is that its versatile and as effective as one person's imagination and its part of your water column so any filtration that goes on there effectively filters the display tank as well.

I only have one concern about running a display devoid of live rock... 95%+ of fish sold in this hobby are reef fish. That means that their habitat and behavior is constructed of large outcroppings of rock in or near which they hunt and live. Having a tank with no rock for cover, hunting, sleeping, breeding, etc may yeild undesireable and even damaging behaviors from many saltwater fish. Gobies make their homes in rocks, wrasses sleep inside rocks, damselfish defend territories of rock, angelfish nibble at sponges on rocks, tangs and parrotfish eat algaes from rocks, anthias school next to rocks to confuse predators, etc etc.

 

[philb]

Yep! You could run a Live Rock (LR) sump and have a high flow rate though it or slow the flow down and use a Deep Sand Bead (DSB) and/or Refuguem (sp) (FUGE). these basicley do the same job in differant ways. And as Ski said this is somewhere to put all the equpment.

Do you have any examples of DSB, FUGE, LR sumps pictures or diagrams? and any idea on hwo you work out how big a sump you need etc, for the size of a tank and the livestock within?? so that i wouldnt need a external filter?

If you want to store all of your LR in your sump, go nuts. The nice thing about a sump is that its versatile and as effective as one person's imagination and its part of your water column so any filtration that goes on there effectively filters the display tank as well.

I only have one concern about running a display devoid of live rock... 95%+ of fish sold in this hobby are reef fish. That means that their habitat and behavior is constructed of large outcroppings of rock in or near which they hunt and live. Having a tank with no rock for cover, hunting, sleeping, breeding, etc may yeild undesireable and even damaging behaviors from many saltwater fish. Gobies make their homes in rocks, wrasses sleep inside rocks, damselfish defend territories of rock, angelfish nibble at sponges on rocks, tangs and parrotfish eat algaes from rocks, anthias school next to rocks to confuse predators, etc etc.

I ahve ocean rock for the amin tank, as i cant afford to fill this with live rock at the moment, but could afford a few pieces to use as filtration in the sump?

i know ocean rock isnt as porous, but i could use this as its cheaper, and then once its established add to it with live rock? whilst still giving the fish hiding, sleeping areas, just without such a big initial outlay?

 

[Matthew5664]

Tank size with determine the livestock you can keep. Adding a sump means adding extra water volume so you can keep more livestock (there is a difference) As for pic I could do something on windows paint for you?

 

[SkiFletch]

Ok, I gotcha now. The answer... It depends . You UK guys throw around the term Ocean Rock a lot so let me make sure you understand the differences between the 3 common names we reefkeepers give to rock. Live Rock you allready know comes from a reef, it is composed of calcium carbonate structure and is very porous and teeming with life. Base rock is just dead and dried out live rock. It is still very porous but it has the disadvantage of not having living things on it. Ocean Rock is basically chunks of limestone or other solid stones with little or no porosity.

Ocean Rock should not be used for filtration in a marine setup. What you can do is buy base rock for most of your rock weight as its really cheap and then buy a small percentage of Live Rock to seed the Base Rock. Provided you stock VERY slowly, use a skimmer, and run a phosphate binder this method works. It takes 6-12 months minimum for base rock to become live rock again. I did this exact setup with my tank so I know its possible .

There are 3 methods to tell if rock is suitable to use as base rock. #1, visually inspect it for holes. If its covered with holes and tiny pores, its probably OK. #2, check its weight. If it feels lighter than a similarly sized piece of solid limestone or similar, chances are its porous enough to use. #3, dip a little portion of it in vinegar for 10 minutes. If after 10 minutes, its still fizzing then you can be sure its made of calcium carbonate.

If you have patience, there is one other method of acquiring base rock... Make it yourself out of aragonite sand and cement. Basically 1 part sand to 3-4 parts cement, mix in enough water to make it damp and moist. Mold it as you like and let it set for 24 hours. Then cure it for a month in freshwater to remove all the limewater that comes out of the cement as it cures (toilet cisterns are great places to cure) and voila, dirt cheap BR

 

[philb]

Tank size with determine the livestock you can keep. Adding a sump means adding extra water volume so you can keep more livestock (there is a difference) As for pic I could do something on windows paint for you?

That would be quality cheers!

any ideas on what to stock the sump with??

Ok, I gotcha now. The answer... It depends . You UK guys throw around the term Ocean Rock a lot so let me make sure you understand the differences between the 3 common names we reefkeepers give to rock. Live Rock you allready know comes from a reef, it is composed of calcium carbonate structure and is very porous and teeming with life. Base rock is just dead and dried out live rock. It is still very porous but it has the disadvantage of not having living things on it. Ocean Rock is basically chunks of limestone or other solid stones with little or no porosity.

Ocean Rock should not be used for filtration in a marine setup. What you can do is buy base rock for most of your rock weight as its really cheap and then buy a small percentage of Live Rock to seed the Base Rock. Provided you stock VERY slowly, use a skimmer, and run a phosphate binder this method works. It takes 6-12 months minimum for base rock to become live rock again. I did this exact setup with my tank so I know its possible .

The ocean rock i mean is just standrad ocean rock over here! not dried out previous live rock! its fairly low in porousity, but does give the rockwork needed for fish to hide in etc! i would not run this in filteration of the sump, just asa decorative rock in the tank until i could get the funds for live rock??

 

[Matthew5664]

Right I would go for

Flow pipe> Fliter Floss>Skimmer>Bubbletrap>Live rock>Bubble trap>DSB with Cheto>Bubble trap>Heater>Divider>Return Pump.

Give me till tomorrow and I'll do you a pic.

 

[philb]

Right I would go for

Flow pipe> Fliter Floss>Skimmer>Bubbletrap>Live rock>Bubble trap>DSB with Cheto>Bubble trap>Heater>Divider>Return Pump.

Give me till tomorrow and I'll do you a pic.

That'll be great cheers!! thanks alot!

 

[Matthew5664]

 

[philb]

Cheers that looks good!

What would you use for filter floss? live rock rubble??

ANd what is the smaller pump next to the skimmer for, feeding the skimmer??

 

[Matthew5664]

For Filter Floss I would use Filter Floss

The Live Rock rubble you can take a hammer to the Live rock or get the little bits from the bottom of the dealers tank.

Yes the pump is for the skimmer

 

[philb]

Filter floss, as in like the foam media pads, or bioballs?

 

[Matthew5664]

>>>>>LOOK<<<<<

 

[philb]

>>>>>LOOK<<<<<

That looks very similar to dacron, used to stuff quilts! If it is i have an endless supply! great!

 

[Matthew5664]

basically its cotton wool but the nylon version.