Sump pump rates?

[bob`_your_dog]

Hey hey. well after a very long weekend setting up my new 4 foot (first) marine tank, carrying 300 liters of water from the beach isn't that fun! Anyway i've been working all day with my sump trying to get it right. I dont have a overflow box so i made up overflow pipes instead, anyway with my pump from the sump running at full speed my overflow makes a terrible noise, sucking air and my pipes couldn't really keep up with it!...

So i switched to a smaller pump which has given me alot more peace and quite and the overflow pipes handel it quite easily. now my first pump was a very strong 1200L/h and the smaller one is a weaker 800L/h i think. it has quite a head to travell so i'm jeusing that i'm getting in the region of 300-400L/H max. I will be using as much live rock as i can afford and was planning on using me sump mainly for mechanical filtration (filter floss) and all other ugly equipment, skimmer ect...

But now i have anouther problem my smaller pump is very un-relaible and is almost broken, can i put some sort of inline valve on my larger one to slow things down a bit, or should i try find a way to speed up the pipes?

 

[ste2k3]

300-400LPH through a sump is very slow for a 4 footer, you really want to be looking at 3500LPH.

BUT

it's still better tank not having a sump at all. I would put a "T" piece in line with the return with the pipe coming off the "T" going to a skimmer etc. you will need to fit a ball valve in this pipe to stop all the flow going to the skimmer. back the the flow question, are you sure the overflow box is on full capacity?

ste

 

[bob`_your_dog]

it's not a overflow box, took me forever to prime aswell

here's a link to how i made it, maybe you could shed some light if i messed up anywhere

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=64316

i was thinking that it would at least help stabilise my setup at slow rates wouldn't it? temp, Ph and all that

 

[ste2k3]

As far as stabiliseing water chemestry, the sump will not affect anything but maybe temperature. the KH/alk and pH may need buffering etc. I have never seen anything like the syphon you have. From the picture, it dosn't look like it will work. how does it syphon with out sucking air in at the "T" piece and breaking the syphon? If you can get it to work well and don't have problems, then you could make another 5 or one using larger diameter pipe (if that would work ) and this would (in theory) give you more flow.

 

[bob`_your_dog]

works on the same principal as syphon. get a pipe and suck water, hold it above the water level and nothing will happen drop it below the level and it will flow. 25 mm is allready a big pipe, and it cost a small fortune to set up yet alone the time it took. now to make that 30mm or bigger might drive me insane

and as far as the t piece is conserend, that stops it from acting as a pure syphon, and lets it work as a overflow. If you seal it water shoots outa the exit ....very fast and furious like

 

[ste2k3]

ahhh, I see, so you let a small ammount of air in through the "T". so if you have a power cut and the pump stops how is the syphon broken? I presump the water level in the tank drops and breaks it?

If you seal it water shoots outa the exit ....very fast and furious like

will this not allow you to use the larger pump on full power?

ste

 

[bob`_your_dog]

i dont think all the pumps in the world could match that rate! and yes thats basically how she works a self primed hidden jewel that i discovered, when the water drops below the outlet of the T she stops, when it rises she resumes her duties. but now anouther question if you dont mind, should i light my sump and would i need to use specific lighting or can i leave it dark at night?

 

[ste2k3]

You could put some algae in there and light it. This would help keep the phosphates down and also the nitrates down. It will also have an effect on keeping the PH stable. You can use a number of different lights. a normal freshwater plant lamp will do fine or even normal light bulbs especially the energy saving ones.

As for the flow, can you not adjust it so its not flowing like mad, but enough to match the water being pumped in?

ste

 

[bob`_your_dog]

thats like taking a hose pipe conecting it to your sump and trying to match it, allmost impossible and completely unstable

 

[ste2k3]

ok, so when the syphon is going, when the water in the tank drops, does the syphon break or just slow down? if it just slows down, you could have the syphon on full power and as it took more water out the water would drop and it would slow down but as the pump "caught up" with the syphon and the water level rises it would start to speed up again and repeat the cycle?

just an idea?

ste

 

[bob`_your_dog]

Yeah that may work if i think i know what u mean, but i have anouther problem, my sump is only a 50 liter (20 gallon i think) and so my trobles would only be doubled as i would have to deal with way to much water trying to get into the sump

 

[ste2k3]

do you mean the surge it may produce or the capacity of the extra water?

ste

 

[bob`_your_dog]

well i think both will probably do damage to my ears and flooring

 

[ste2k3]

In that case, I think the only option is to have it running slowly or get an overflow box. see how it goes, it may work well running slow if its just to hide the equipment and for mechanical filtration. you could upgrade to a box in the future.

ste

 

[bob`_your_dog]

can u get boxes put in with water in, or do you have to lug the whole thing down to a shop? but if it runs slowly it should still filter?