Sump Order

[jagz]

hi guys well i have decided on my tank size as i have been given a 48x15x18, so i now know that i can fit a 42x15x15 sump under it,

my question is

1.what order should my sump be in ?

skimmer --> refuge --> return
refuge --> skimmer --> return

2.also can some one tell me what size refugium should i be looking at?

thank you jagz

 

[ox5477]

Well there are a couple ways to go about this. Depending on how powerful your return pump is will prob determine the method.

For the first it would go:

IN->Refuge->Return

With skimmer/bioballs/filter floss or whatever you might have in the first zone that recieves the water from the main tank. Then the second zone is the fuge with the macro algae, sand and/or lr. The bubble trapt between the fuge/entrance zone. Third is the return. If you divert part of the piping that goes back to the display over to your fuge using ball valves, it can help control flow back to the main tank and not put alot of pressure onto the return pump by cutting off flow as a staright line with a ball valve would do.

Second:

In->return zone->fuge

This works with having a more powerful return pump than theoretically needed. Again, T off a part of the flow and have it dump into the fuge area. This will alow slower flow through the fuge and again, alows for easy flow adjustment back into the main tank without putting a lot of back pressure on the pump.

Ox

 

[jagz]

ok thank you ox i like the sound of the 2nd option, i have a 2700 lt/h lying about that im no longer using so i was going to use that so would that be powerful enough to do the job , what sort of flow shoul be going through the fuge or wont a 2700 be powerful enough to put enough water across the fuge and return aswell, i will have plenty of flow in the main tank as i have 3x koralia 3s,

and if i went with this method would i put my skimmer in the 1st chamber

jagz

 

[Crazy fishes]

Yes, put the skimmer in the inlet (section receiving water from the display tank). Just if you are interested there is an alternative to macroalgae in a refugium section. You can create mangrove sections which are really nice looking however require a lot more work than the conventional water with some algae thrown in. Just an idea. As for flow rate I think 5x the sump size is appropriate. As for the pump you will have to use the pressure head graph that comes with the pump. If you don't have that ask in your LFS for the pump you are using and see what it says on the insert. It relates to as you pump water up vertically the pressure head falls the higher you go so hence bigger pump equal bigger pressure head and the further vertically water can be pumped. You have to measure the vertical distance between the sump and display tank i.e where the pipe work will run and then use the graph to see what the pressure is at that distance remembering to aim for a 5x turn over in the sump. That about sums it up I think !! Anyway any more questions you know where we are.

Regards

 

[jagz]

ok cheers crazy , so if i go by what you are saying then this 2700 lt/h pump is way to big my sump tank will possibly be 48x12x15 which is about 140 litres so if it isnt full of water say it holds about 100-120 litres so i would want a pump that can turn that over 5x which would mean it needs to be 5-600 lt/h say 8-900lt/h to allow for height and bends ,

can u just confirm if im on the right lines here, can i just say im not new to sumps i have had 2 sumps in the past and am about to set up 11 tanks on a single sump for my discus.

if i have my return in the middle what sort of turn over needs to go over the fuge if i T off the return pump ,

i hope i havnt confused anyone

 

[ox5477]

well really enough to keep the area oxygenated is enough, also enough to keep the macro healthy... ie with nutrients... so maybe 3-4x its sections volume... maybe less... If you really wanna go crazy with this sump, watch the video here called "Sump Concept"

This guy is making a sump for a very large tank but its a cool design... and could prob easily be made to fit the size of your sump.

for flow at your head height, it all depends on the pump, what size diamter tubing your using, and how many bends are in the piping as all these things cause losses due to friction, gravity or fluid dynamics. All these factors will effect head loss and pump efficiency... so really, you need the head loss chart of the pump manufacturer. Knowing all these factors, the head loss could be calculated using Bernoulli's equation, but it still would not be 100% accurate because it also depends on how efficient your pump runs. so if this paragraph confused u basically find the head loss chart for your pump

Ox

 

[jagz]

ok cheers for that , i have just looked for the box and im sure i have thrown it away , all i can tell you for now until i go see if the shop still has some is that the pump is a weipro 2700lth pump

jagz

edit: its actually a wh6000 pump

 

[ox5477]

well I found this, bought the next closest thing to the head chart I could find... atleast gives the max head: Weipro

From the table, looks like the max head 3.10m or 10.17ft. So rough estimating, at 4-5ft (roughly tank height), your gonna be looking at maybe 1/2 of the flow... so roughly 1350lph. this is an estimate though and doesn't take into account tubing diameter, the addition of bends and how many return lines you have.

Also, should mention to since many other salty members recommend this, try looking into an external pump is possible. The submersible pumps will add quite a bit of heat to the water and might actually cause the tank to run hotter than you want.... just FYI

Ox

 

[SkiFletch]

I'd look at an Oceanrunner 2500 with dual 1" drains for a tank that size

 

[jagz]

thank you ox for finding that info out i have been looking for that , so in that case will it be strong enough.

ok ski cheers i will look into the or2500 if this one turns out to weak

jagz