Suicidal clown loaches

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

So little update… they’ve stopped going crazy but now are just floating about and laid completely drained and lifeless. I’ve done 50% changes 3 times this week.

New photos and/or vide of the fish please! With the lights on so we can see what we're looking at...

What are your test results for the water now, and what test kit are you using to test the water? Not all of them are that accurate.

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WHAT TO DO NOW?
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This should remove anything from the water that shouldn't be there.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.



Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Try to get a video of the fish so we can see the behaviour. If you use a phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen. You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.

Why only 50% water changes 3 times per week? This is an emergency situation at this point, your loaches are dying. Why haven't you been doing the 75% daily W/C's and tank cleanings? It's the only to be sure the water isn't the main problem, would be diluting any contaminant that somehow contaminated the tank without your awareness, and would help the fishes immune systems fight off any other parasites or infections, since super clean fresh water helps their immune system handle any other issues, buying you time to find the underlying cause so treatment can be targeted.

Is it still a fear that doing large water changes will harm them somehow? Because it won't, and it certainly can't make them any worse than they are now.

Sadly no quarantine tank. I will be investing in one now, just never had an issue I can’t solve before

I did say that I can talk you through how to make a cheap temporary QT tank out of a food safe plastic storage tote. Can work brilliantly, especially in an emergency and don't have time to get and set up another tank, and with large fish that need bigger than a ten gal QT

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Oh, and are they eating at all now?

 

[Burrell10]

It’s probably more than 50%…. It’s as far as I can really go without moving all the objects in the tank and scaring the fish?

I’ve attached the photos I can currently get, you can see the damage to one of clown loaches nose from smashing into things.

They are acting like a fish suffering from swim bladder now. I’m not sure if I should try and treat them for this issue?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Oh geez... these poor fish, they're in a really bad way

What are water test results now?

Again, are they eating??

Please then do another water change, as large as you can, making sure to use a water conditioner and temperature match the new water to the tank temp before adding.

They are acting like a fish suffering from swim bladder now. I’m not sure if I should try and treat them for this issue?

Don't buy or add random medications until you know what the problem likely is. Throwing random medications in would only make things worse, and we KNOW that this isn't "swim bladder disease" or whatever, since it's started out and presenting very differently, and they're lying listlessly on the bottom, not stuck floating at the surface.

Wondering whether that nose wound actually indicates something parasitic or bacterial - would be unusual for even a panicking fish to bash it's face into decor/walls hard enough to leave that kind of damage. @Colin_T @TwoTankAmin @Naughts @GaryE @Slaphppy7 , calling in everyone who can help more, I don't think the fish have much time left...

 

[Burrell10]

Last week, the speed they were traveling and me having to easy them out of holes and splits in the roof of the tank. The damage the two who died had, were even worse. Cuts across their faces and one of the hit something so hard it went blind in one eye I’ve done another probably more 60% at least change this morning so don’t know if the results of a test are actual. But it still shows nearly zero or perfect on everything!

The only thing I keep thinking back to is the new heater? It all started after that…. I can’t find a single thing wrong with it though!!

 

[Burrell10]

Sorry, they don’t seem interested in food

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Last week, the speed they were traveling and me having to easy them out of holes and splits in the roof of the tank. The damage the two who died had, were even worse. Cuts across their faces and one of the hit something so hard it went blind in one eye

Man, this is horrible. I wish I could fix it, feel terrible for them.

I’ve done another probably more 60% at least change this morning so don’t know if the results of a test are actual. But it still shows nearly zero or perfect on everything!

If the water change was this morning, it will be fully mixed in with the older water by now, so test results would be accurate as long as the test kit is an accurate one, and you're doing the tests correctly... dip strips don't tend to be terribly accurate though. Liquid test kits like the API master test kit are much more accurate, but it's possible to get false results if the process isn't followed fully accurately. You have to shake the bottles really hard, even bang them on a surface to make sure their mixed properly before adding the drops.

The only thing I keep thinking back to is the new heater? It all started after that…. I can’t find a single thing wrong with it though!!

If you can put your hand in the water without feeling like it's super hot or super cold, then it's not a heater problem causing this nightmare.
Please answer these questions ASAP:

Which test kit are using?
What are the exact numbers for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and pH?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Another thought: You're using tapwater for the water changes, right? Once you've tested the tank water, also test the tap water. Perhaps the water company has done something, and we can be sure the water from the tap isn't causing a nitrite/nitrate spike. Unlikely, but we have to rule it out, especially before doing more water changes.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I am puzzled as to why you have said that to do the requisite 75% daily water changes you need to remove all of the decor first.

That should not be necessary at all.

What do you use to remove the water when water changing?

My largest aquarium is 200 litre and I use plastic jugs to get the water out...and I use smaller ones as the volume drops to avoid snagging on the decor. Others here use a syphon which again would not require removal of any decor.

The fish are in a volume that is too small, the filtration is potentially unable to keep up with the waste made by the fish and you seem unable to follow very good instruction regarding larger water changes to assist in clearing whatever is affecting the fish. The fish are suffering terribly from the conditions in which they are being kept...to keep them even vaguely comfortable you must start following instructions or they will be swimming in their own waste til the day that they die.

When you have an overstocking situation like this you naturally must increase the maintenance to avoid health issues that these fish are experiencing. The average stocking is once or twice a week maintenance...overstock and you can be doing maintenance alternate days or even every day depending on how severe the overstock is.

I honestly do not understand why you are so resistant to do daily 75% water changes, it will not harm the fish, you do not need to remove the decor...and please do not keep using medications when your maintenance regime is so obviously not helping your fish.

Do the maintenance properly and bin the medications.....that is where you start on these fish that are existing in an aquarium too small for them and suffering the effects of inadequate care.

 

[Burrell10]

So just drove and brought API test stripes as recommended…
Results are
NO3 - 20
NO2 - 0
PH - 6-6.5
KH - 0
GH - 60-120
Ammonia -0
Temperature is 29 degrees, a little warm but it’s set at 28 degrees.

 

[Burrell10]

Replying to the water company issue, I have two tanks and I always do a minimum of 50% each Sunday on both. My other tank does not have a issue (has yoyo loaches), think that could rule out the tap water problem.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Just scanned back through the thread and picked up on a couple of things - you mentioned the rainbow shark was previously in with the clown loaches, and now you've moved the shark to your other tank. That you have two tanks, and that the other has yoyo loaches and now the rainbow shark in there, is that right?

How many yoyos in what size tank is it? Since I'm assuming you use the same water for both tanks, have you seen any kind of alarming behaviour from the yoyos at all?

I'm very concerned that this is going to wipe out your clowns, and very likely the yoyos soon after...
Really need you to be prepared to answer our questions and work hard on the tanks, if we're to have any hope of saving these fish.

So just drove and brought API test stripes as recommended…

Good on you for being willing to go get a different test kit! But who suggested API test strips? I said the liquid master test kit...and that dip strips tend to be less accurate...
Which kit were you using before? Next step is to test the water again with that one and check if the numbers are the same with both tests. If two different brands give the same results, then you can be a bit more confident in them.

Can you test the tapwater too?

 

[Burrell10]

I’ve read so many, swear I saw someone say API and saw them in the pet store. Sadly couldn’t find liquid test kits, went to three stores. So my other test stripes are eSHa?
Nitrate - 10/20
Nitrite - 0
GH -6/7
KH - 0/3
PH - 6.4
Chlorine -0

I’ve never tested the tap water, is it with the same stripes?

So with the rainbow strake, I thought maybe he’d just become aggressive and that was what caused the clown loaches to act different. He normally bugs them a little but nothing major but he chased a loach and it hit a pipe and then that’s when everything started from there. So he got the blame and moved into the other tank but nothing changed and the loaches got worse.

My yoyos in the other tank seem great…. At the moment the sharks become a little more confident and chases them a little but nothing major I see to worry about right now! I’ve attached some pictures of them. They are very confident for yoyos spend a lot of time out and playing.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I’ve read so many, swear I saw someone say API and saw them in the pet store. Sadly couldn’t find liquid test kits, went to three stores. So my other test stripes are eSHa?
Nitrate - 10/20
Nitrite - 0
GH -6/7
KH - 0/3
PH - 6.4
Chlorine -0

I’ve never tested the tap water, is it with the same stripes?

It's concerning that you've said tank always reads around 20ppm for nitrAtes with weekly 30% - 50% water changes keeping it steady there... that usually it maintains at that level. But you've stepped up the water changes this week, doing three 50% water change, including a 60% change this morning, and yet two test kits are still saying nitrates are around 20ppm. They should be much lower by now after doing three times more water changes than your usual routine.

So the math isn't adding up... test results not reliable, or something in the tank is producing far more ammonia and nitrites than normal, which is leading to high nitrates - yet you're not getting a reading for ammonia or nitrite, and you don't have nearly enough live plants to process that much fish waste.

Yes, same strips to test the tap water. Just test it the same way you would test water from the tank.

So with the rainbow strake, I thought maybe he’d just become aggressive and that was what caused the clown loaches to act different. He normally bugs them a little but nothing major but he chased a loach and it hit a pipe and then that’s when everything started from there. So he got the blame and moved into the other tank but nothing changed and the loaches got worse.

My yoyos in the other tank seem great…. At the moment the sharks become a little more confident and chases them a little but nothing major I see to worry about right now! I’ve attached some pictures of them. They are very confident for yoyos spend a lot of time out and playing.

How long have you had the shark? They're juveniles when you buy them, the aggression tends to come out once they've reached maturity and become more territorial. If he was hassling clown loaches to the point that it was injured, and the clowns are now in this state, I wouldn't trust that the yoyos are safe either... need to make some other plans for your fish stocking pretty soon I think.

I have a real love for the botiid loaches, especially yoyos! So this thread is breaking my heart. I truly want to try to help, but it's difficult through typing out and only seeing pics.

The yoyo tank - one in the photo looks bloated and has me a little concerned. Not quite like the chunky female shape I'm used to seeing from the female I had. I also see a cory with the clowns, and bristlenose plecs with the yoyos. More questions I'm afraid, sorry to seem so demanding, but can only help if we know what's really happening in these tanks, and the clowns are in a bad way!

Additional questions:
Tap water test results?
Size of yoyo tank?
Complete stocking list for each tank - how many of what fish?
Any new fish added recently? Haven't ruled out a parasitic/viral/protozoan/bacterial infection yet, and with shared tank equipment, it could have come from a fish in the other tank, but hit the clowns hardest.
Have you had any other fish die recently other than the two clowns?

 

[Burrell10]

So tap water
Nitrate & nitrites - 0
GH 6/7
KH 3/6
PH 7.6
Chlorine 0

So tank 1 (clown loach) now
4 clown loaches was 6
8 guppies 2 endlers
2 dappinos
3 corys
1 Congo tetra
2 albino neon tetras
3 black shirt or black widow
2 platys
1 bristle nose plec

Tank 2 (yoyo)
3 yoyos the chubby one is a female, she is about 5 from previous tank owner. Other two I added about a year ago from babies.
1 Congo tetra
One huge plec (first buy from a pet store, don’t tell you the grow huge!)
Maybe 10 bristle nose plecs? They breed
I think 4 sparking gourami but rarely see more than 2 at a time.
Rainbow shark.
Plus a snails for the yoyos to eat.

My tanks have got very mixed as moving aggressive fish apart.

The guppies were in the second tank but I swapped them when I moved the shark to avoid him killing those. The guppies are the only new purchases. Minus the heaters for both tanks.

I lost a blue gourami in the clown loach tank about a month ago, couldn’t see any signs in the water or illness in the fish. I check and count my fish every morning when I turn the light on.

My platys are in the clown loach tank because he was harassing the females until they hide and wouldn’t come out for food. But after he was moved they still died, that’s what brought me towards parasites and if I had brought it over with the platy?

Hope this all makes sense.
I do test my water most weeks and when any signs come up and normally the nitrates aren’t that high.